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The real sinners

January 13, 2013

Readers are quick to quote passages from their Bibles as being absolute and unquestionable when supporting their various positions on abortion, homosexuality or religion....

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(44)

CMReeder

Jan-14-13 9:13 AM

"The good news for all of you atheits is that you'll have this thread all to yourselves for a couple of hours while all of the Christians go to Church. Have fun and I'll catch up with you this afternoon."

All the sinners go to church, I took the rest of the day off to enjoy what God created. You came back to rub people's noses in it.

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LaughIn

Jan-14-13 2:14 AM

Jesus is God, really? You mean to tell me that one person can wear many coats, shucks I didn't think that was probable considering statistics and all.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 8:21 PM

Laughin, I like that answer, just not sure about the convoluted question.

You confuse scholars and researchers. A researcher tries to find truth that has been previously hidden. A scholar's proper role is to study and discover as much information about a subject aa possible. The problem is that many modern scholars see it as there job to create new knowledge. That in itself is not a bad thing, but that new knowledge must me based in fact. Many of these scholars, such as the ones that BuffTrev was refering to, seem to feel the need to make things up. That is not scholarship, that is fiction writing. I have great respect for scientists who work in fact and stick with the established scientific protocols. I have had the pleasure of working with some fine ones, and the agony of working with some who were not so consciencious. My only point is that the requirements of scholarship are not what they used to be.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 7:27 PM

You are not God and are a sinner, that is the correct answer sir.

Modern day scholars are forward thinkers and have advanced medical science to new levels. Grow up and stop the holier than thou attitude. You are a reading teacher I presume, because you keep referencing your poor retention abilities.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 5:31 PM

Laughin,"Enigma, doctors are not God, but, either are you."

Never said I was. Maybe a remedial reading class is in order. BTW, your question has been asked many times and my answer is the widely accepted correct answer. What is your answer?

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 5:20 PM

Texas, the answer is not organized religion for this lamb. I find fellowshiping in the work sense much more rewarding. I know what you are saying, but I find company in my everyday life much more rewarding and less complicated. I appreciate your knowledge and less harsh words.

Enigma, doctors are not God, but, either are you.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 5:08 PM

Cont>>>

There are a variety of churches and worship styles; some like a liturgical worship style, some like less structure, some like lots of music, some (like myself) are satisfied with only one or two songs, some want the Lord's Supper each Sunday, some are satisfied once per quarter, etc.

I like the concept of the modern cowboy churches; wouldn't it also be good to have some farmer's churches, construction worker's churches, educator's churches, etc where people of similar backgrounds would fit in.

"Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching." -Heb 10:25

I really think that God wants us to be with others in worship but we need to ask Him where He wants us to be. Just like people are called to be pastors, ministers and priests, God calls us to be part of a body of believers. Maybe you could visit a dozen or so and find out where God wants you to be.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 5:06 PM

"To assume that one who goes to church on Sunday takes precedents over their belief in God is ludicrous. I have a personal bond with God and that is what matters." --Laughin

+++

I understand and a relationship with God is most important but it is also important to fellowship with other believers.

I grew up in a church where the minister was changed out and the new one talked personal philosophy instead of scripture-based teaching/preaching and we left. We tried watching church at home on TV but it wasn't the same. We went to a different church but it was small and there weren't any kids my age. Eventually that minister was transferred and we moved back.

Some work on Sunday's or can't drive and depend on a ride.

Cont>>>

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enigma

Jan-13-13 4:54 PM

Laughin, The answer to your question is this. Jesus was God; doctors just think they're God.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 4:30 PM

Any and all: I've got a pair of chest crackers, a few powerized drilling devices, scalpels, and other handy gadgets that have dual functions. Jesus was a carpenter and knew how to use his tools equally well. Using that analogy, tell me the difference in occupations? Both believe in sacrifice, creating better beginnings, enhancing life, serving others, learning from mistakes, owning their transgressions, and preserving the past.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 4:20 PM

Laughin, I call them imaginers, because much of their "data" is made up and the conclusions they draw have very little to do with it anyway. I watch many of these "scholars" on the History Channel and PBS and wonder where they come up with this stuff. It all makes sense when they describe it until you realize that many of their premises are fabricated. Any fact they need that cannot be proven is just accepted as axiomatic. It flies in the face of the scientific method and philosophy.

Buff, All of the Mayan calender stuff came from scholars. Yes, most did not accept it, but that's where it came from. Most layman cannot read Mayan script.

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Bufftrev1

Jan-13-13 3:53 PM

Hi enigma, apparently we differ in our definitions of what constitutes a modern scholar. By citing the mayan calendar, I presume you are, by extension, referring to the supposed end of the world. I don't know of any such reputable scholar who provided any validity or credence to that particular legend. And, I'll refrain from joking about the reference to modern imaginers while we're discussing religion, despite the open invitation to do so. Enjoy your Sunday I'm rooting for Houston..

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 3:47 PM

Enigma, are you for real or a robot? You call modern day thinkers "imaginers ", oh Lord. I suppose our modern day medical doctor's who take their Hippocratic oaths seriously, should not be acting as Gods either. You can take your ideas from the past and insert them into modern day survival and equate any solution you'd like.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 3:20 PM

Buff,"isn't it correct that modern scholars now think that thou shall not kill was meant to only mean thou shall not kill anyone jewish?"

I have no doubt that some "modern scholars" believe that. They believe just about anything. Remember it was modern scholars that gave us the Mayan calandar thing. However, there is absolutely no support for that view in the Bible. BTW the more correct translation is "You shall not murder". The Bible actually sanctions killing in carrying out governmental duties, as in capital punishment and war, and in self defense.

P.S. Modern scholars may be modern, but calling them scholars is a huge reach. In many cases it would be more accurate to call them modern imaginers.

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Bufftrev1

Jan-13-13 3:00 PM

Hi enigma, mighty generous of you. One book I requested came from Green Free, which I believe is in Wiliamsport. So, if you donate a copy of it there, it may well be something I could get via loan. Regarding your subsequent post, isn't it correct that modern scholars now think that thou shall not kill was meant to only mean thou shall not kill anyone jewish?

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enigma

Jan-13-13 2:50 PM

Back to a discussion of the letter. The Bible does not say that eating shellfish is an abomination. It says don't eat them or touch their dead bodies. It does not say that people should be stoned for wearing cloth woven from two different kinds of thread, it just says don't do it. The writer aludes to the prohibition against selling Israelites into slavery and then speaks of sanctioning selling one's daughter into slavery. Since the books of the law were writen for the Israelites, this cannot be and isn't true. Before you judge these laws (and by association, God), you must try and understand that they were given to a people who needed much more than spiritual guidance. To understand which of these laws apply to us today and which don't and why, requires a more in depth study of the Bible and history than most people are willing to do and especially non-believers. The author has no idea what he's talking about and should therefor be ignored.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 2:36 PM

Buff, Yes, I remember Chris's evaluation of the book. He said it was an apologetics book. Did you think I would recommend a book written by Dawkins? You where asking for apologetics. The book was written by an investigative reporter, an atheist, who had set out to disprove Christianity and as a result of his investigation was converted. This is precisely the kind of information that you asked for. What library are you going to? I will buy a copy and donate it to them so they will have it for you.

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Bufftrev1

Jan-13-13 2:25 PM

Hi enigma, even though you seem to feel compelled to both ask and answer a question you asked, I still want to reply. Apparently you don't recall that I said any book you recommend to me would have to be available at my local library or via inter-library loan. I've requested it and was just at the library on Friday and they didn't have it waiting for me, so it may not be available through these means. Although, if you recall, another respondent joined our discussion and gave a summary of the book, as he\she had read it. Their summary seemed to align with other reviews of the book found via google. So, the answer is not as simple as 'I didn't think so', perhaps next time you could try thinking just a bit longer..

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Bufftrev1

Jan-13-13 2:13 PM

Hi mike, sorry but no, I have yet to get an actual answer.. I've recieved answers that dance around the topic but nothing of substenance. Strange, considering the relative straightforwardness of the question.. I'll continue to think that the verses cited in this letter as well as the others I've noted should be taken as written, and therefore I want nothing to do with it. Any influencial book that calls for death for homosexuals, being killed for working on the weekend, and death to disobedient kids is not something I find moral, ethical or worth celebrating.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 2:08 PM

We all are sinners Texas. The difference between those who choose to have a heartfelt conversation about religion (and their are many to choose from) is much different when the topic is well defined. To assume that one who goes to church on Sunday takes precedents over their belief in God is ludicrous. I have a personal bond with God and that is what matters. I also feel that some posters turn the questioners off by sledgehammering their own beliefs with quotes from the Bible, with minimal explanations. I am not referring to you, but it occurs on this site and turns a chance to help one into a complete failure.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 2:06 PM

"Bufftrev1-"I have yet to hear a rational explanation as to why a reader should not take these verses at face value, or as written."

Oh, you've heard it plenty, from ToTex, Relene, Enigma, and myself. You just pretend like you haven't because you don't want to hear it. Have a great day." ---mikekerstetter

+++

I agree.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 2:02 PM

Laughin, You're right, I should have called him a fool. That's much more Biblical. I stand corrected.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 1:59 PM

You focus on the extreme, harsh, final punish associated with the behaviors in the Old Testament verses so that through reasoning, you can dismiss the remainder of the Bible. You desire rebelliousness against God and only want to do what you think is right in your own mind.

Instead, why not focus on the value of following these verses and what they could achieve in your character; a righteousness that can occur by God living in your life.

As an example, when I was a teenager, I had the opportunities to smoke cigarettes or drink beer but I was so afraid of the punishment that I could get from my father if he smelled my breath that I never did. But looking back on it, he desired the best for me and the fear of the punishment kept me away from something that was bad for me.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 1:50 PM

@enigma, "Don't try to be clever, it doesn't work for you." Your call to sideliner at 1:09 pm, think about that one in the mirror.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 1:41 PM

Think about this Christian, "No you idiot, I was just about to go to church and now I am back. " What did you learn? The proof is in the pudding, how is that parable!

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