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The real sinners

January 13, 2013

Readers are quick to quote passages from their Bibles as being absolute and unquestionable when supporting their various positions on abortion, homosexuality or religion....

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mikekerstetter

Jan-13-13 5:21 AM

It's apparent that Ron can read a book and pick a few verses, but it's also apparent that he lacks understanding and wisdom concerning the Bible.

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Bufftrev1

Jan-13-13 7:43 AM

Hi mike, the author may lack wisdom, thats rather subjective but it's unclear why the author lacks understanding. The examples cited in the letter are pretty straight forward. I have yet to hear a rational explanation as to why a reader should not take these verses at face value, or as written.

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Premier

Jan-13-13 7:43 AM

"The real sinners are those who use its verses to impose their own individual beliefs on others."

Ron, your LTE was meant to do what?

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CMReeder

Jan-13-13 8:45 AM

"It's apparent that Ron can read a book and pick a few verses, but it's also apparent that he lacks understanding and wisdom concerning the Bible."

Mike that is what the writer is saying of the people who use the Bible to bolster their arguments.

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andy33

Jan-13-13 9:08 AM

That's right Mike...Chuckie is right in his comment...surprise! Read the letter..and it is a fair assessment of those that USE bible verses to prop up arguments.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 9:35 AM

"It is ironic no one quotes some of the more ridiculous passages in the Bible on other subjects."

It is ironic that after saying this, Ron does not quote them either. What he does is reference a verse and then give a very bad interpretation of the verse. I very much doubt that he has ever read the Bible or any part of it, but gets his information from books "about the Bible". If the Bible really supported slavery, do you think that the anti-slavery movement would have been started and lead almost entirely by Christians? This whole letter showcases an ignorance of the Bible and Biblical history that disqualifies the writer as credible. Unfortunately, too many people read these books, written by God haters, and believe them, without getting the opposing perspective. There are also many who believe them because they simply want to believe that there is no God, but even if these books did disprove the Bible, that would not be proof that there is no god.

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Luey22

Jan-13-13 9:38 AM

The author is wise in his thinking; "The real sinners" are those who "pick a few verses" and demonstrate an apparent lack of understanding and wisdom concerning what the read in the Bible.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 9:43 AM

The good news for all of you atheits is that you'll have this thread all to yourselves for a couple of hours while all of the Christians go to Church. Have fun and I'll catch up with you this afternoon.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 11:08 AM

It is easy for one to choose a quote, but for one to actually expand on and use it properly involves thinking to occur.

Enigma suggests that the Christians who participate in fellowship on Sunday's through organized religion are those who do the thinking. The good news is that this is not true.

One could interchange Ron's thought to just about anything. How we misunderstand basic terms in politics, science, Webster's Dictionary, and the Bible. I am still trying to bend my thought around this Atheist and not going to church analogy of enigmas. Maybe after church, someone could straighten that misunderstanding for me?

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philunderwood

Jan-13-13 11:37 AM

Religious “truths” are only true for those believing in that religion and therefore are of no value when used as the foundation for discussions outside of that religion.

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sideliner

Jan-13-13 11:43 AM

enigma, I assume you are in church posting from your iphone...

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sideliner

Jan-13-13 11:46 AM

LaughIn, I agree. Who says, besides enigma, that anyone hereis an atheist"

The author of this letter is absolutely correct in he assertion that, and I add that historically speaking, over time the Bible has been used as a beating tool to whip people in line to a specific behavior agreed upon by an elite group.

And yes, slavery was absolutely valued by Christians otherwise there would have been no need to outlaw it. And to say that some Christians were behind the outlaw of slavery does not negate the fact that many Christians were slave owners.

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mikekerstetter

Jan-13-13 12:16 PM

Bufftrev1-"I have yet to hear a rational explanation as to why a reader should not take these verses at face value, or as written."

Oh, you've heard it plenty, from ToTex, Relene, Enigma, and myself. You just pretend like you haven't because you don't want to hear it. Have a great day.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 1:06 PM

So Mike Kerstetter is going to start grouping people into categories? Readers on these comment sections do not view all of your grouping methods the same. It doesn't matter what you say to a non-believer, it is the way you do it. Who is pretending, you just judged someone for not believing, because their religious rights do not match yours. The real sinner is the hypothetical Christian who is taught that their method of fellowship is the only correct way. I proved my point with the misunderstanding of lifestyles and one sided thinking.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 1:09 PM

sideliner,"enigma, I assume you are in church posting from your iphone..."

No you idiot. I was just about to go to church and now I'm back. Don't try to be clever, it doesn't work for you.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 1:18 PM

Buff, Did you read the book I recommended? You know, the recommendation you insisted that I give you. I didn't think so.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 1:26 PM

Laughin,"I proved my point with the misunderstanding of lifestyles and one sided thinking."

First, You've proved nothing. You only said what you believe and called that proof. Next, you've shown in this post that you misunderstand the lifestyle of the Christian. And here's the most hypocritical part of your post: "one sided thinking" You have demonstrated that you can't even accept that there is a side other than yours. That thinking is about as one-sided as you can get. You accuse others of transgressions that you yourself are much more guilty of. Think about it.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 1:35 PM

"The real sinners are those who use its verses to impose their own individual beliefs on others."

+++

"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." So whether the quote verses or not, they are indeed sinners.

Do you have a savior?

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 1:36 PM

"The Bible is an eclectic collection of parables, fables and stories written and changed over thousands of years by many cultures (Christopher De Hamel, The Book: A History Of The Bible)."

+++

I went to Amazon and read the dozen reviews and they don't cast it in the light that you do. Is it a collection written over thousands of years? Yes. Des it contain parables, stories, history, poetry, prophecy, etc? Yes there are a variety of writing genres. Was it written in different languages and in different cultural settings? Yes. Have there been some copying errors when translated from one language or culture to another? Yes but there are 20,000+ manuscripts to give a lot of confidence that the modern day translations are accurate. We can have confidence in the Bible.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." --2 Timoth

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 1:41 PM

Think about this Christian, "No you idiot, I was just about to go to church and now I am back. " What did you learn? The proof is in the pudding, how is that parable!

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 1:50 PM

@enigma, "Don't try to be clever, it doesn't work for you." Your call to sideliner at 1:09 pm, think about that one in the mirror.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 1:59 PM

You focus on the extreme, harsh, final punish associated with the behaviors in the Old Testament verses so that through reasoning, you can dismiss the remainder of the Bible. You desire rebelliousness against God and only want to do what you think is right in your own mind.

Instead, why not focus on the value of following these verses and what they could achieve in your character; a righteousness that can occur by God living in your life.

As an example, when I was a teenager, I had the opportunities to smoke cigarettes or drink beer but I was so afraid of the punishment that I could get from my father if he smelled my breath that I never did. But looking back on it, he desired the best for me and the fear of the punishment kept me away from something that was bad for me.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 2:02 PM

Laughin, You're right, I should have called him a fool. That's much more Biblical. I stand corrected.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 2:06 PM

"Bufftrev1-"I have yet to hear a rational explanation as to why a reader should not take these verses at face value, or as written."

Oh, you've heard it plenty, from ToTex, Relene, Enigma, and myself. You just pretend like you haven't because you don't want to hear it. Have a great day." ---mikekerstetter

+++

I agree.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 2:08 PM

We all are sinners Texas. The difference between those who choose to have a heartfelt conversation about religion (and their are many to choose from) is much different when the topic is well defined. To assume that one who goes to church on Sunday takes precedents over their belief in God is ludicrous. I have a personal bond with God and that is what matters. I also feel that some posters turn the questioners off by sledgehammering their own beliefs with quotes from the Bible, with minimal explanations. I am not referring to you, but it occurs on this site and turns a chance to help one into a complete failure.

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