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Agree to disagree

January 20, 2013

In response to Dr. David Keller’s letter “Misapplied Immaturity,” we, as Americans, are given our freedom of religion in our Constitution. It’s right there in the Bill of Rights....

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(42)

ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-22-13 9:25 PM

DB,

No offense taken. I hope that your friend is doing better. I just read your post and paused to pray. Long day at work.

I have some Catholic (RC) friends and co-workers and they are Christians.

The RC church was the big player back then. Methodist, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, and many others didn't exist back then.

Concerning the "traditional" vs "sacred", I would consider sacred to be in the Bible. Whereas, in the Prologue (item 12) of my Catechism of the Catholic Church, it uses the phrase "whole of the Church's Tradition" and includes things like the Fathers of the Church, liturgy, and the Church's Magisterium (ie teachings). These are not as authoritative as the Bible and that is why I used the term traditional.

When the Bible talks about the sun and the earth, it deals more in relative term rather than absolute terms, like the position of the sun at a point in the horizon or sky relative to a person on the earth.

Have a good even

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DavidBross

Jan-22-13 9:26 AM

Texas, The comparison to horse racing was snarky. I apologize for that. I'm off to visit a friend in the hospital. Kind thoughts and prayers will be appreciated.

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DavidBross

Jan-22-13 8:31 AM

Texas, a couple of thoughts: First, I think it is interesting that you don't refer to the Roman Catholic Church as Christians. The Church was as Christian as it got in those days. Second, for them, they weren't clinging to a traditional belief. They believed they were holding on to a sacred belief. Third, people, and the organizations they identify with have been notoriously unable to separate wheat from chaff. Only the lens of history allows us to see better than them. Fourth, the Christians in the Roman Catholic Church used the Bible to support their beliefs. So, if they couldn't avoid backing the wrong horse back then, I have no confidence that current Christians can do any better in picking winning ideas.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-22-13 6:04 AM

DavidBross,

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church clung to a traditional belief that the earth was in the center and the sun revolved around it. It was wrong.

In this case, I was simply pointing out that a Christian definition is different from a secular definition. God can not sin, nor lie, etc because they are not part of His nature; he is not powerful enough to do these things because they are not Him.

Sometimes churches and religious institutions will cling to man-made philosophies that sound good but are less than God's principles. That is why it is always important to go back to the Bible as the basis, where possible.

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DavidBross

Jan-21-13 10:52 PM

"Definitions are based on orthodox Christian systematic theology." For many centuries orthodox systematic Christian theology asserted that the Sun revolved around the Earth. It was asserted with such conviction that those who believed the Earth revolved around the Sun were jailed, tortured, and in some cases killed by being burned at the stake.

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CMReeder

Jan-21-13 9:25 AM

MrShaman, alcohol does not attend Mansfield but it sure does help to get through.

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CMReeder

Jan-21-13 9:23 AM

There you go again enigma I was responding to what one of your right wing friends posted. They said that not mean I was really amazed they believe this and then you attack me for it. Which does not surprise me.

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MrShaman

Jan-21-13 6:52 AM

"The only difference between Judaism and Christianity is on the question of the Messiah." - enigma

*

I'm thinking you should ask for a refund; regarding your philosophy-"education".

See:

Lewis Black - The Old Testament (YouTube)

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MrShaman

Jan-21-13 6:47 AM

"Maybe Mr. Mahosky should take a good philosophy class and learn that claiming that there is no god is not an intelligent position." - enigma

*

I'm sure Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny & Tooth Fairy support your position.

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MrShaman

Jan-21-13 6:32 AM

"I wonder if that bar 'Green Shingles' is still the bar students go to for alcohol who attend Mansfield." - CMReeder

*

I had no idea there WAS alcohol that attended Mansfield.

Curiouser, and curiouser....

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MrShaman

Jan-21-13 6:28 AM

"Thanks MSG. Guns and religion, doesn't get better than that." - rick424

*

"Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition".

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-20-13 10:00 PM

BuffTrev1,

Definitions are based on orthodox Christian systematic theology.

For instance, God cannot lie, cannot sin, cannot be tempted by evil, cannot cease to exist, cannot cease to be God.

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Bufftrev1

Jan-20-13 9:38 PM

Hi enigma.. philosophy 101. If god is omniscient, he must already know how is going to intervene to change the course of history using his omnipotence. But, that means he can't change his mind about his intervention, which means he is not omnipotent. A concept easily grasped by the average 18 year old. Or, as Karen Owens put it.. Can omniscient god who, knows the future find, the omnipotence to, change his future mind? Thanks for the heads up regarding the book, I'll ask again if it's available via loan locally..

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enigma

Jan-20-13 9:06 PM

Buff,"if there be a god, he can either be omnipotent or omniscient but not both."

And exactly what do you base this ridiculous statement on? It is certainly not a scientific statement.

BTW, Good news. The book that I recommended to you that you couldn't find (The Case for a Creator) is available at the J. V. Brown Library.

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Bufftrev1

Jan-20-13 8:38 PM

Hi texas, regarding your quote below.. if there be a god, he can either be omnipotent or omniscient but not both.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-20-13 8:34 PM

"Now, Dr. Keller says that people are not the best source of instruction. He is correct." ---Bryan Mahosky

++++

If that is true, why should I read what you or your professor have to say?

Actually, I do agree. God and His Word are the best source of instruction, not people. I suggest that you also try it.

"Whoever gives heed to instruction prospers, and blessed is he who trusts in the Lord." --Proverbs 16:20

"Choose my instruction instead of silver, knowledge rather than choice gold, for wisdom is more precious than rubies, and nothing you desire can compare with her." --Proverbs 8:10-11

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-20-13 8:15 PM

"Why are we all here?" Laughin

++

Excellent question. I propose the following answer......God created us for his own glory.

"everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made.” -Isaiah 43:7

"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory." -Ephesians 1:11-12

We are even called upon by scripture to glorify God, see 1 Corinthians 10:31 "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."

I may not fully understand the how or why but that is what scripture says.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-20-13 7:58 PM

cont>>>

perfection. We do not possess His omniscience, omnipotence, nor omnipresence. It is arrogant to think we are this way based on our own actions, thinking, and behaviors.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-20-13 7:55 PM

"It is truly arrogant and self centered to believe that my own image is that God-like." -Sideliner

++

God's Word, not my own philosophy or education, says "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." -Genesis 1:27

I may not fully comprehend and understand all the implications but that is what it says and it applies equally to both male and female. If I take these words as truth and look at mankind's being to compare it with the qualities of God that are revealed in the Bible, I can see several comparisons that meet this claim.

1. Morality - knowing of right and wrong

2. Desire for relationship and knowing and interacting with others

3. Love and caring for others through action and words 4. Mercy and forgiveness to others when we are wronged

5. An eternal life, yet to be revealed

Conversely, we do lots of things that are unGodly; we fall far short of His righteousness, holiness, and perfect

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LaughIn

Jan-20-13 5:15 PM

John, sometimes the inanimate soccer ball justifies its ability to hold air and be used?

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JohnZook

Jan-20-13 4:43 PM

Laughin- God created us and made us in their image because they were basically lonely and wanted company. Think the Tom Hanks movie "Castaway". His character was alone and he made a soccer ball a friend. Which would you rather have- an inanimate object or a friends that you can be with? Of course, this is only an opinion and not something I sourced. And lets not confuse inanimate objects with Lefties...

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JohnZook

Jan-20-13 4:35 PM

My daughter(again) went to college at IUP. She had a Feminist/Lesbian Psyc teacher and if she wanted to pass the class, she had to satisfy her mind set. They aren't teaching anything about Christianity because they can't. They CAN teach Islam and other religions and even honor those religious holidays. But, being taught about Christianity, or even mentioning it, is forcing a religion on our children.

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LaughIn

Jan-20-13 1:48 PM

The "I don't know" conclusion is sometimes better given, than the 5000 ridiculous opinions from most. Why are we all here? I don't know!

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enigma

Jan-20-13 1:47 PM

Chuck,"The Constituion gives you nothing, really? Owning a gun is a God given right, amazing!"

Showing your ignorance again? The Constitution does not give us rights, it forbids the government from taking away our God given rights, at least that's what the founders said. Some of them did not want to include the Bill of Rights for this very reason. They did not want fools to believe that the rights came from government. And yes Chuck, the right to self defense is God given, so I guess you could say that your fight with the Second Amendment is really a fight with God. That's not going to turn out well for you.

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enigma

Jan-20-13 1:42 PM

sideliner,"Christians stole the 10 Commandments from the Israelites who had a contract with God involving said commandments."

This shows a complete ignorance of the Christian religion. The only difference between Judaism and Christianity is on the question of the Messiah. Those who adhere to the Jewish religion are still waiting for Messiah, while Christians believe that He has come in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Christians did not steal the ten commandments. They are part of the Christian religion, because they are part of the Jewish religion.

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