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Biblical authority

January 27, 2013

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he receive them, for they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14....

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mikekerstetter

Jan-27-13 5:12 AM

I believe the 'translators' he is talking about are the non-believers. Those who take scripture out of context, with little knowledge and no sense of what the difference is between reporting what was happening and what God was telling His people to do, nor how the Old Testament relates to the New Testament and vice versa.

Having several translations of the Bible (New King James, New Living Translation, New International Version -1984 and 2011, Common English Bible and The Message Bible) to use to compare scriptures and gain understanding, I can tell you the message is the same. Some words are changed for easier understanding and reading is made easier, but the message is the same.

And Faith, Francine, is what it is all about. Through Faith and God's grace I have the Promise of Eternal Life in Heaven through the blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

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enigma

Jan-27-13 7:19 AM

Francine, While it is true that some Christians (and most atheists) believe by "blind faith" it is not required. What you call blind faith, I call ignorance. I believe the Bible because it is varifiable. Archeology is proving more and more of the Bible to be historically accurate and literally hundreds of predictions from the Bible have come true, a feat not repeated anywhere or any time. It also contains scientific information that was not available at the time it was written. Curiously enough Francine, you believe what you believe about the Bible by blind faith. You heard it somewhere and you believed it, not because of any proof, but because you wanted to. Sadly, all negative criticism of the Bible is, in your words, self serving. Most un-believers are such by choice not by intellect.

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mikekerstetter

Jan-27-13 7:30 AM

enigma, good point. And thanks for the recommendation on the book "The Case for a Creator". I have a Kindle and have found out that the time on the treadmill or bike goes by much quicker if I read. Just finished "Not a Fan" before I started the one you recommended. Before that it was "Be Satisfied (Ecclesiastes)". The Case for a Creator is a good book.

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enigma

Jan-27-13 8:10 AM

Thanks Mike, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Maybe I should recommend a book to Francine. "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" is a great book about how much faith it takes to accept the claims of Atheism, because it really has no solid foundation and it's tenets are specious. She might stop throwing around the term "blind faith" if she realized that she's just as blind.

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rick424

Jan-27-13 8:36 AM

Paster, maybe some day you could write an LTE as to why religious people are some of the most intolerant people on earth. I am sure Jesus would not want it that way. Thank you.

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enigma

Jan-27-13 9:22 AM

Rick424, Yes and you are so tolerant of people who disagree with you. Of course since you are a pagan I guess you don't have to be a decent and reasonable person. The problem is that you think that disagreeing is intolerance, but you are wrong. Tolerance is allowing you to believe what you want. Freedom of speech and religion came from Christian beliefs, so ironically, you have Christians to thank for your right to be whatever it is you are. Think about it.

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Bufftrev1

Jan-27-13 9:41 AM

Thou shall worship no other god before me. No graven images or likenesses. But, somehow, enigma, freedom of religion came from Christian beliefs? Given the very first of the ten commandments, I don't see the connection..

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enigma

Jan-27-13 10:51 AM

Buff, Yes, in fact the freedom to choose comes from God Himself. You are free to believe what you want. What you don't have is the freedom from the consequences of that choice and God tells you the rules and the result of violating those rules. Since we have all violated those rules, He has also provided for a pardon, something I have accepted and you have not. If you intend to bring up the inquisition, don't bother. It was not a Christian act, but an unChristian act carried out by some horribly misled "Christians". Muslims will kill you for not convertng, but Chirstians understand that a forced faith is no faith at all, hence your freedom of religion.

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CMReeder

Jan-27-13 11:15 AM

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enigma

Jan-27-13 11:24 AM

I would like to get back to the content of Pastor Waltz's letter. He states his case very well and given more space, I have no doubt he could do even better. His critique of "The Real Sinners" letter is spot on and even if you don't agree with the Pastor's religious beliefs, there is some good information that can be gained by an unprejudiced reading of his letter. I don't expect the hard-core God haters here to suddenly convert, but maybe they will stop using the same worn out silly arguments that Pastor Waltz just put to rest. Who knows where that might lead?

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mikekerstetter

Jan-27-13 11:37 AM

rick424-"Paster, maybe some day you could write an LTE as to why religious people are some of the most intolerant people on earth. I am sure Jesus would not want it that way. Thank you."

I don't find that to be true at all. The problem is that you liberals equate sticking to our moral convictions and not accepting certain alternate lifestyles as being intolerant. You think if voice our opinion about the lifestyle we don't accept the person and label us as haters. Nothing can be further from the truth. It's ironic that you are tolerant of everyone else BUT Christians.

Perhaps you can write a book telling us why that is.

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CMReeder

Jan-27-13 12:23 PM

An unprejudice reading of the letter? Amazing!

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Bufftrev1

Jan-27-13 12:24 PM

Thank heaven for societal zeitgeist..

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-27-13 2:21 PM

"Paster, maybe some day you could write an LTE as to why religious people are some of the most intolerant people on earth. I am sure Jesus would not want it that way," ---Rick424

+++

Suggest that you do some word searches using the words tolerate, tolerance, tolerant in you favorite electronic Bible or concordance.

God's tolerance should not be misconstrued as an acceptance of sin; as the Assistant Pastor mentions, there will be a time for judgement. May I offer the following:

"Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, TOLERANT, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin? But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed."-- Rom 2:4-5 NLT

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Bufftrev1

Jan-27-13 3:15 PM

Hi texas, just curious, but what sin exactly am I guilty of committing this week? I didn't murder anyone, didn't covet my neighbors wife, take the lords name in vain or steal. This nasty Christian preoccupation with all things sin, as well as guilt too, needs clarification.. gracias!

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-27-13 3:20 PM

Rick424,

An afterthought...

"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well.” --John 14:6-7a

Can you explain how this fits into your concept that Jesus is tolerant?

One way, one truth, and one way to life. He is not saying "many ways to God", nor is he saying "that anything goes", nor does he say "if it feels good do it".

Jesus taught, showed compassion, and loved. These are all things that we need to copy and do and let him display through our lives. But the sin issue still needs to be dealt with in everyone's life; are you going to accept the gift of his death on the cross as payment for yours?

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Bufftrev1

Jan-27-13 3:29 PM

Hi texas.. another question, regarding your last quote. Payment to whom, exactly?

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-27-13 3:41 PM

BuffTrev1,

Honestly, I didn't follow you or read your thoughts to be able to answer that question for this past week.

But you know your entire life. Did you ever steal anything from anyone, or disobey a parent, or think some lustful thoughts, or break a traffic law, cheat on your taxes, or blaspheme the Holy Spirit, etc.

You might read some of Matthew 5 for further insight into God's expectations. Verses 43-48 can be especially revealing since they talk about loving your enemies and praying for those that persecute you. And this is precisely what God did for us; God the Son showed His love for us by dying on the cross for us.

Will you accept this gift; will you listen to the Holy Spirit knocking on your heart and invite him in? Or are you going to sin by blaspheming the Holy Spirit [a state of hardness in which one willfully resists God's saving power and grace]?

Your answer....

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Bufftrev1

Jan-27-13 3:58 PM

Hi texas, if occasionally exceeding the speed limit is cause for eternal damnation, then I guess I'm in trouble.. the honest answer would be yes, with the exception of cheating on taxes, I've done everything that you listed. I'm going to continue to live my life as always, going out of my way to provide for and support the few people I love while attempting to hurt no one along the way.. enjoy your Sunday, mon ami.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-27-13 4:12 PM

Great question and I am not sure that I can provide an accurate answer. Maybe a person that has been seminary trained can answer this. I admit that this will send me to some books.

In the meantime, there are probably several relevant points. In John 19:30, when Jesus says "it is finished", this is more of a commercial/business term that was used in the culture of the day; it actually means "paid in full". So Jesus' death paid the sin of the people, much like you paying off a loan from a bank for a friend or relative. The sin of man was imputed to Christ while the righteousness of Jesus was imputed to those that believe, ie Jesus became sin for us.

On the other hand, God raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus himself had not sinned and was not worthy of eternal death but the sacrifice was sufficient.

Back on your question, I am not certain to say that the sacrifice was to someone/a person but maybe more of an act to be done. On the other hand, our sin is agains

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-27-13 4:14 PM

cont>>>

against God so maybe the payment is to God. In this case, God the Son pays the debt while God, the Father accepts the payment. Again, this will require more study for a definitive answer.

You also have a wonderful Sunday and week, mi amigo.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-27-13 4:29 PM

"I'm going to continue to live my life as always, going out of my way to provide for and support the few people I love while attempting to hurt no one along the way.."---BuffTrev1

+++

These are nice and honorable things that you mention. But your paradigm is a "works-based" solution to provide salvation like many of the other world religions, ie, you can put enough "good" stuff on the one side of the scale as compared to the "bad" stuff on the other side of the scale and when you die, the arrow would point to the "good." This is the incorrect paradigm.

In Ephesians 2:8-9, it says "by grace have you been saved through faith, it is not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not by works, lest anyone boast."

You deeds though nice, do not cancel the sin. You need to have faith in Jesus Christ.

May your mind, soul, and spirit wrestle with these concepts. May God's grace be upon you.

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WKnapp

Jan-27-13 4:36 PM

This comes down to a matter of God's grace. Grace is undeserved, unmerited favor. There is nothing we can do to deserve or earn God's grace. He gives it freely. It is a gift. It is by God's grace that we accept God's grace. He patiently leads us along through life until we either accept the gift of and by His grace or we willfully reject Him by our own blindness. If we delude ourselves by thinking we did ANYTHING by our own power, it's a sin. We're guilty of stealing glory from God. There is NOTHING we ever accomplish by our own power. The "self-made man" acknowledges a fool for a creator, and thereby blasphemes. God, by allowing such blasphemy instead of immediately punishing it, shows His tolerance and love for His creation. Also, the 'thou' who 'shall have no gods before Me' was the Israelites, the true believers. Others were welcome to become true believers, in which case, they fell under the Law, too. But the Israelites, as God's chosen people, were the recipients of th

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WKnapp

Jan-27-13 4:47 PM

recipients of the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law by His atoning death on the cross. His righteousness is available for us to use by God's grace, through faith in Christ, which is also not our own, but imputed to us by the Holy Spirit. We, in and of ourselves, have nothing, can earn nothing, deserve nothing. It is by God's grace that we have hope for everlasting life.

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enigma

Jan-27-13 4:57 PM

Buff,"Thank heaven for societal zeitgeist."

Thanking a place that you say you don't believe exists? You're slipping.

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