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Revealing quote

February 2, 2013

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote....

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(48)

Premier

Feb-03-13 3:00 PM

"So tell me Premiere, do people have to have their sense of humor as well as their common sense surgically removed before they get their official right winger card?

Maybe that explains the success of the "Half Hour Comedy Hour". When they named the show, they probably had no idea they were including its lifespan in the title."

WTF?????????

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mikekerstetter

Feb-03-13 12:05 PM

gavinf56-"Mike, just thought you would like to know I am laughing right now. Good luck."

Gavin, I would say it's like having a conversation with a mentally handicapped person, but I'd be offending the mentally handicapped. Just saying....

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mikekerstetter

Feb-03-13 12:03 PM

CMReeder-"Not putting words in your mouth Mike you are incapable of thinking."

OK, Chuck, Where did I say that the supreme court has not ruled that certain weapons can be banned?

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CHayes

Feb-03-13 10:53 AM

So tell me Premiere, do people have to have their sense of humor as well as their common sense surgically removed before they get their official right winger card?

Maybe that explains the success of the "Half Hour Comedy Hour". When they named the show, they probably had no idea they were including its lifespan in the title.

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CMReeder

Feb-03-13 9:41 AM

Not putting words in your mouth Mike you are incapable of thinking.

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Premier

Feb-03-13 2:21 AM

Hayes: "Exactly correct, hince the need for the well armed lamb from having its right to life being taken away."

"So now you want to arm embryos? Let me guess, tiny AR-15's?"

Another proof positive of the chemical embalance Mr. Hayes is suffering from. Only he knows what the above qoute references.

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gavinf56

Feb-02-13 4:15 PM

Mike, just thought you would like to know I am laughing right now. Good luck.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-02-13 2:55 PM

CMReeder-"Mike grow up! The Supreme Court has ruled many times that the government has the right to regulate guns. Which means Mike they can ban guns that they deem unsafe for the general population."

And again, Chuck, stop putting words in my mouth.

Chris asked why we couldn't ban ALL guns. I replied to him because of the second amendment where it says we have the right to bear arms. That was the extent of my argument.

You're delusional arguing points I have never made. I didn't say that supreme court hasn't ruled that certain weapons can't be banned. I was simply answering Chris' question as to why he couldn't ban all guns.

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CMReeder

Feb-02-13 1:37 PM

Mike grow up! The Supreme Court has ruled many times that the government has the right to regulate guns. Which means Mike they can ban guns that they deem unsafe for the general population.

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CHayes

Feb-02-13 1:11 PM

Ok then Carl, if you don't have a problem with people voting, what exactly was your point to start with? If somebody was trying to alter the process for amending the Constitution, I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it.

So that leaves the big question, what was the point?

I'll add, I have never in my life seen a definition of "democracy" that includes any mention of changing the constitution easily. But I have seen the following:

"Representative democracy involves the selection of govt officials by the people being represented. If the head of state is also democratically elected, then it is called a democratic republic."

Did you really start this whole episode over semantics?

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CarlHiller

Feb-02-13 12:53 PM

I vote, because I have the right to vote in our constitutional Republic.

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CarlHiller

Feb-02-13 12:52 PM

CHayes- This is a case where you are mistaken. Both a Republic and the different types of democracy vote for representatives. One of the distinctions lies between a constitution that lays the foundation on what may actually be done by those elected and what even the people may ask government to do. A democracy can have a constitution, but unlike a republic it can be changed at the whim of those elected. In our Republic there are only 2 ways to change the constitution and neither is an easy course.

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CHayes

Feb-02-13 12:45 PM

Would it be out of line for me to ask Carl, why if the Founding Fathers were so against any type of democracy, did they bother to hold elections?

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CHayes

Feb-02-13 12:35 PM

Remind me again Carl, who was it that said "mo taxation without representation"? Probably some tyrant.

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CHayes

Feb-02-13 12:34 PM

I have to say Carl, if you are that opposed to democracy, my advice would be don't vote.

It's just so bizarre to hear people in the 21st century say that people selecting their own leaders through open, fair elections leads to "tyranny". In the part of the world I come from all tyrants manipulate elections to hold on to power, if they even allow them at all.

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CarlHiller

Feb-02-13 12:14 PM

A representative democracy is very much the same as a majoritarian democracy except that the majority forces there will on those they elect to represent them.

A representative democracy is one in which officials are elected to vote on behalf of the people on most issues rather than having all of the citizens vote on every issue. In a republic, those elected to represent are restricted to voting only on those issues that the organic foundational laws (the constitution, bill of rights, articles and the northwest ordinance) have allowed, nothing more nothing less. A constitutional democracy is a representative democracy in which the government's power is restricted by a constitution. America and the individual states are a Republic, for practical purposes, the difference between a republic and a constitutional democracy is one of semantics because both restrict what can be done.

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CarlHiller

Feb-02-13 12:13 PM

CHayes - I do not for one believe Republicans to be saints, in fact I have seen where they are as detrimental to America as democrats. There are many, many issues I disagree with Republicans on. A republic is a representative form of government, ruled according to a constitution (the foundation for any action government may take). A democracy is government that is ruled according to the will of the majority. Though these forms of government are often confused, there contrasts could not be more clear. The main difference is the constitution that limits governmental or majoritarian power in a republic, to protect the individual's rights against the desires of the majority and government. In a true democracy, the majority rules in all cases, regardless of any consequences for individuals or for those who are not in the majority on an issue.

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CarlHiller

Feb-02-13 11:49 AM

There is no disconnect. The problem lies with those of you on the left who want to continually deny what is fact.

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CarlHiller

Feb-02-13 11:48 AM

Hostile: Unfriendly; antagonistic. openly opposed or resisting

You are right CHayes the Founders were openly opposed to a form of government that always leads to tyranny over the people. Maybe I should have used something like a "strong aversion" or "repugnance of" or any of a multitude of different terms or words. But hey I am not a PC kind of guy.

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CHayes

Feb-02-13 11:13 AM

I always find it strange to see conservatives bad mouth democracy. They seem to have some sort of disconnect that prevents them from understanding the difference between, direct and representative democracy.

They also have had this bizarre affection for ballot initiatives for decades now. I mean its hard to get more democratic (small "d") than a ballot initiative.

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CHayes

Feb-02-13 11:07 AM

Talk about a "reveling quote".

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CHayes

Feb-02-13 11:04 AM

" The Founders were tremendously hostile to democracy as a government because it has and always will lead to tyranny."

Holy ideology Barman, I feel like I could be reading Karl Marx talk about his "dictatorship of the proletariat".

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CHayes

Feb-02-13 10:47 AM

" Thanks for the morning laugh"

If I'm doing my job properly, coffee should have come out of your nose.

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CarlHiller

Feb-02-13 10:42 AM

"So...in some peoples' minds...those are our two options; Democracy, OR Liberty" Exactly Shammy, Liberty and Democracy have never blended together. America is not, nor has it ever been a democracy, it is a Republic with a Constitution as its foundation. The Founders were tremendously hostile to democracy as a government because it has and always will lead to tyranny. There is a tremendous difference between a democracy, where mob rules and in a Republic where the foundational laws, ie the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and yes even the Articles of Confederation place a chain around the lawmaking of men in government. If you want to change the country to a democracy then propose a constitutional amendment and get that passed through 2/3rd's of the states.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-02-13 10:23 AM

CMReeder-"But Mike your side always..."

That's the problem Chuck. I didn't say it, so quit putting words in my mouth. If you want to argue what I said, use what I said, not what anyone else said.

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