In disagreement

"I'm not sure why Francine went out of her way to attack you there."--SteelerFan

+++

I like Francine. She speaks her mind the way she sees things and usually has good points. I didn't see it as a personal attack; it was more of a questioning of a concept, belief, or idea. I hope that my explanation was satisfactory.

We are all sinners (myself included without any doubt) and are in the need of a savior. We need to be there to uplift, help, and encourage each other.

1 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Agreed, I am not arguing that at all. Sadly we have all but priced ourselves out of the global economy as a whole. Sadly the middle class did play a role in this while spending freely and overextending when times were good. The average American's annual credit card balance is roughly 20% of their annual net wages. That does no more than devalue the dollar and push inflation. I am as guilty as most, I am one of the rare few who will admit to it and wish I was not.

0 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

bryan48 " We must remember we almost never did that until 'liberals' fought against child labor laws and pushed unionization."

Liberals had no more to do with it than the Sun comes up everyday. Had cheap energy and industrialization not been developed that allowed increased production we would still have child labor, long hours and low wages.

1 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

It is not the nation that had gone overboard it was the markets specically the financial sector.

1 Agrees | 6 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

It is not communism enigma it is economics. While it is true that Marx and Engels based their philosophy on the relationship individuals have in society. You can not deny the various relationships that develop between individuals socially, economically and with technology. In building those relationships you negotiate.

1 Agrees | 6 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Francine, I mean it makes perfect sense as CM explained.

Our founding father's were the among the wealthiest citizens of the US at the time of ratification and the birth of the Constitution. Jefferson and Washington were in fact two of the top 5 weathiest Presidents in US history. If we are on the same page, it really was not until the industrial revolution that we would really forma middle class. We must remember we almost never did that until 'liberals' fought against child labor laws and pushed unionization. Before anyone flys off the handle, that is a fact, however we have gone overboard as a nation. That is the real reason the US auto industry failed to sustain itself as a whole.

3 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Reeder, your interpretation I think makes a lot of sense.

1 Agrees | 4 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Michael needs to stop reading Communist propaganda and take a look at history. Before the United States was formed most of the world had an upper class and a lower class; rich and poor. The freedom offered in the United States created a new class of people who were neither rich or poor, the middle class. It is not a scam, it is freedom.

Francine,the phrase,"objective relation to the means of production" is a reference to the goal of Communism. Its use is common among unions, professors and certain politicians who live in the White House.

3 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Good response there Texas. The Bible is, after all, Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. I'm not sure why Francine went out of her way to attack you there.

3 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Cont>>>

isn't it worth it?

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

"Is it because you interpret the Bible as allowing for such class distinction in "this case".."this case" being who get's to live after life on earth verses who gets to perish after life on earth?"

+

Francine, the Bible is pretty clear on this; I didn't invent the rules; I don't decide. I am just the messenger; don't shoot the messenger.

I view it as being able to help save another person from making a decision with undesirable ultimate consequences. If you saw a person about ready to step into a street and get hit by a car wouldn't you rather grab them by the arm and jerk them back knowing that you might bruise them or would you let them be killed? Or would you yell stop knowing that it might hurt their ego by making them look stupid? I think that you would at least yell "stop" or grab them to save them.

There are people already divided from God. If some might listen to God's word, make a change in their life, and abide with Him, isn

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

"Classes lead to jealousy and divisiveness. Why tear each other down? We need to build each other up." I agree Tex, so why do you constantly create a class differentiation based on total belief of Jesus or else? Is it because you interpret the Bible as allowing for such class distinction in "this case"...."this case" being who get's to live after life on earth verses who gets to perish after life on earth? Talk about divisiveness and tearing each other down!

2 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Poor Bobbie is still a tyrant.

2 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Actually it isn't the market, it is only part of the process.

1 Agrees | 4 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

“The question is how do you decide who is to be rewarded for their effort and by how much?”

The market.

3 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

"The question is how do you decide who is to be rewarded for their effort and by how much?"

Carlitos union ideology, no effort, lots of pay.

2 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

"objective realtion to the means of production."

In my opinion this means your position in the process. Are you the inventor, the laborer, the manager, the investor, the owner, the supplier, the seller, the consumer, the agent, the protector? The question is how do you decide who is to be rewarded for their effort and by how much?

2 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Working but not paid well.

3 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

"There is only one true determinant of class - objective relation to the means of production."

working class, underline working.

4 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Ok Bryan48, are you being facicious, or do you think "It makes perfect sense, and is actually one of the few well written letters all year." Please explain to us what this means: "There is only one true determinant of class - objective relation to the means of production."

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

"There is only one true determinant of class - objective relation to the means of production."

+++

Classes lead to jealousy and divisiveness. Why tear each other down? We need to build each other up. God's Word is wisdom, is like spiritual food that nourishes us, uplifts us, is love, is caring, is compassionate, is like a well full of water in the middle of a drought, is comforting, is richer than owning a gold mine, is life, and is better than owning the most palatial house in Beverly Hills or renting the most expensive penthouse in New York City.

1 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Ownership or renting of a home each have their own set of pros and cons. It depends upon your situation and what you want to do.

If you want to build equity, have greater freedoms in developing your property as you see fit, enjoy all the rights of a property owner, and want to stay in the same area for a while, then homeownership is probably the better option.

If you are only going to stay in the location for a short time, want time to look to buy the perfect home, want flexibility to leave with relatively short notice, don't want to tie up equity in a market that may be declining, are willing to live with restrictions on how you can use the property and readily able/willing to vacate because the owner doesn't want to re-lease, then renting is the better way to go.

Sometimes a stigma of ownership being higher class than a renting but that should not even enter the thought process. People should respect each other based on their character. Just love each other.

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

It makes perfect sense, and is actually one of the few well written letters all year.

0 Agrees | 8 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Francine..I'm with you.. I have no idea what the heck that even means..

Sounds like the author is saying either "Middle Class is the people who others make money off of" or maybe "The middle class is the people who produce ..basically everything.." I don't know. I'm throwing darts in the dark here, there had to have been an easier, better way of wording that sentence. Maybe the author just wanted to look really smart.

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Owning a home in America is an investment that if taken care of, with time will usually produce a return on your investment. Unlike renting, cost of the ownership usually does not vary by much other that property tax fluctuations. With the artificially low,government subsidized interest rates that we are currently enjoying, I suggest that this a fantastic time for the renting public to enter the realm of home ownership. The key is to buy what you can truly afford and not what your realestate agent talks you in to!

10 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »