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A tax on sales is unfair

February 15, 2013

If everyone pays the same tax rate, why is a sales tax unfair? Pennsylvania’s 6 percent tax is unfair because it is not based on a person’s ability to pay (income), and it punishes the poor and......

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(55)

LaughIn

Feb-15-13 8:21 PM

Necessities are not taxed. This LTE is ridiculous and a flat sales tax would work. Mike demonstrated the progression in tax rates for his household income, does that percentage change for millionaires?

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cheyenne

Feb-15-13 7:54 PM

Mike, I agree where necessities are concerned. I believe that is why food and clothing are not taxed. That indeed, would be unfair to the lower income earners.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-15-13 7:11 PM

Cheyenne, I don't believe the rich are rewarded with any tax.

But I do have some reservations about sales taxes depending on what is taxed. The less money one makes the more of their income is spent on necessities. So if you would tax everything the poor would pay taxes on a much higher percentage of their earnings than the higher income people who tend to have money to save or invest.

I'd much rather see a flat rate income tax imposed.

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cheyenne

Feb-15-13 6:51 PM

Interesting that the writer claims the sales tax punishes the poor while rewarding the rich. Please explain how the "rich" are rewarded. Because they don't pay more that is a reward?

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Premier

Feb-15-13 6:47 PM

Mike:"If their income was all Capital Gains they wouldn't pay federal income tax, they would pay Capital Gains taxes."

I forgot about that. Very true.

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Premier

Feb-15-13 6:45 PM

Hayes:"Pardon me, but in 2011, there were 7000 people in the US that made more than a million dollars, and paid ZERO federal income tax.

WWhickok:"When it comes to this, there is no justifiable excuse. EVERYONE should have to pay federal income tax. Just as the rest of us do, on all of their income."

I can guarntee you this was someone gross income and not their AGI which can be zero.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-15-13 6:20 PM

Tgrammiex4-"mikekerstetter, I just know they withheld $3600 from Hubby's check and we got 1/2 back. I'm not sure what he claims on his w-4"

They withheld $3600 and you got back 1/2 = an $1800 refund, meaning you paid $1800 in federal income tax. $1800 divided by $35000 = an effective tax rate of 5.14%, not the 12% you say you were paying.

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eric88

Feb-15-13 2:20 PM

Living the good life off of government benefits. --- from the whptv site from 2/4/13

Further explains how the democratic base.....err I mean welfare trash ..can earn(steal) up to 80k per year from the government(responsible taxpayers)

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Tgrammiex4

Feb-15-13 2:16 PM

mikekerstetter, I just know they withheld $3600 from Hubby's check and we got 1/2 back. I'm not sure what he claims on his w-4

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mikekerstetter

Feb-15-13 1:50 PM

CHayes-"Pardon me, but in 2011, there were 7000 people in the US that made more than a million dollars, and paid ZERO federal income tax."

If their income was all Capital Gains they wouldn't pay federal income tax, they would pay Capital Gains taxes.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-15-13 1:41 PM

Tgrammiex4-"mikekerstetter, We fall into the "lower middle class".At 35k for the year, no kids to claim, very few deductions, we lost 1/2 of what we paid in. I believe we fell at 12%."

Not saying you are not telling the truth, but on a $75K income we paid just under $3900 in federal income taxes. And, according to you, you paid 12% on a $35k income, or $4200 in federal taxes (and you had $8400 federal tax withholding on that $35k income). We had more than double the income and paid over $300 less federal income tax than you. Something doesn't seem right.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-15-13 1:34 PM

wwhickok-"Mike...You don't see how the 'lower class' is burdened with taxes? Are you talking about those in poverty?"

Yes, I am serious. How can you be 'burdened' with federal income taxes if you don't pay any or pay next to nothing?

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eric88

Feb-15-13 1:02 PM

Copy/pasteHayes----First of all, how Jesuslike of you to refer to poor people as "trash

Big difference between poor people and exploiters of welfare programs.

I reserve my right to have the understanding that an inbacil like yourself cannot comprehend that basic concept.

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wwhickok

Feb-15-13 12:58 PM

Frankly Shaman and Hayes are two of a kind. They come on here, quote/reference ridiculous articles and youtube videos, provide six-second-thought opinons, and have no idea what the in h*** they're talking about, especially when it comes to welfare.

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philunderwood

Feb-15-13 12:58 PM

“Previous generations did also Phil and they resolved it.”

So Chuck, you’re saying that it’s fair because it happened in the past? And the national debt hasn’t been resolved in modern history and at present it’s multiplying at a rate that’s far greater than any time in the past.

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wwhickok

Feb-15-13 12:56 PM

To add to what Grammie said, Hayes ...no one is referring to 'poor people' as trash. There is a difference between being poor and being welfare trash. Welfare Trash = people who abuse the system, find ways to not have to work, sit on their a** and make other people pay for their survival. Poor people try, they just don't have the income to..well not be poor. There is a MAJOR difference. Before you open your mouth and insert your own foot, try to understand what it is someone is actually saying.

Furthermore..if you really wanna go there about the Escalades and Hummers, gas tax might be the only one they're paying, it is my belief that those people walking around in brand new nikes, driving Escalades, etc, and collect welfare because they don't work..sell drugs. Hey maybe that's stereotypical but I'm telling you right now if you have a better theory I'm willing to listen to it. Gas tax..ooh wow man, that's really helping out the economy when that's all you pay....sheer genius

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eric88

Feb-15-13 12:53 PM

Tgrammiex4--totally and wholeheartedly agree.

As for "cut- and-paste Hayes" he has no idea. A simple man unable to conjure a valid thought or idea on his own. If it weren't for Rachael Maddow, the New York Times, and Paul Krugman, poor Hazy wouldn't have anything to parrot on here....

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Tgrammiex4

Feb-15-13 12:21 PM

CHayes, do you have any idea how frustrating it is to not have the benefit of higher education and work hard all your life, often slightly above min. wage, raising your family and making just enough that you don't qualify for all those great tax breaks. You see your neighbors that have never worked a day in thier life, half a dozen kids and the parents don't roll out of bed till the crack of Noon cause they were partying all night.They have a mysterious "disability" but can run all day long on check day and food stamp day and often in a much nicer car than you have.People like this are poor by choice and there's alot of them.They take advantage of every program the Govt. offers and live quite comfortably.SSI is the new welfare, no time limit.

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CHayes

Feb-15-13 11:48 AM

" Its one of the only taxes the welfare trash cannot weasel themselves out of."

First of all, how Jesuslike of you to refer to poor people as "trash". Second of all, I thought you right wing scum said all people on welfare where driving around in Escalades and Hummers? Don't they pay a lot of gas tax then?

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Zippie

Feb-15-13 11:34 AM

We can't have a national sales tax and drop the Fed Income Tax. Why? That would mean the drug dealers, "ho's", illegals, and those paid "under the table" would have to actually have to cough up some dough to help run our country.

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eric88

Feb-15-13 11:00 AM

Love the sales tax!...why? Because on a personal standpoint nobody is exempt. Its one of the only taxes the welfare trash cannot weasel themselves out of.

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wwhickok

Feb-15-13 10:52 AM

I guess in a way, I am under that illusion Enigma..I don't own any stocks so.. yea. As far as your comments about the credits, Logical, I give you that. I am effected by the Earned Child Tax Credit, though I understand your reference to welfare, I am not going to call it 'unfair' but I look at that from the point of few that I pay more in taxes than I get back from that credit usually so I look at it as paying for it myself. But I respect and understand your logic, it's not wrong.

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CMReeder

Feb-15-13 10:46 AM

"Perhaps those who use fairness as the basis for their political and economic arguments can explain to us how it is fair for us to live beyond our means today and expect our descendants to struggle while trying to live and pay the debt we’re accumulating."

Previous generations did also Phil and they resolved it.

Intersting fact the private debt in this country is $38 trillion. Double the national debt.

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enigma

Feb-15-13 10:39 AM

whickok, You seem to be under the illusion that stock income is not taxed. It is, albeit at a different rate. That is something that should be remedied, but cannot be until overall tax rates are brought down, because investment would slow considerably if capital gains taxes were that high and that would hurt the economy even more. Eliminating deductions and credits would allow that to happen. As for those deductions and credit, they are really just welfare built into the tax system. In fact, liberals refer to some of them as 'corporate welfare'. Why should I pay for your child care or you pay for my mortgage interest? Without all of the deductions, the rates could be lower and the taxes would be so simple you could file them in 15 minutes. You would probably not pay any more in taxes. It would be easier and more 'fair'.

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wwhickok

Feb-15-13 10:04 AM

First off Enigma, speaking only for myself, I'm not by any means suggesting that you should take money from someone just because they can afford it. I do think taxes need to be applied to things like stocks and other such 'devices' that allow people to avoid paying federal tax like the rest of us do however.

Enigma, I do agree with most of your first comment, I don't agree on the part about eliminating income tax. I wouldn't be against listening to your specific reasoning and alternatives to income tax but I think people should have the right to get things like Earned Child Tax Crdit and schooling deductions, etc. I do think the 'deduction' capability is far too broad and often abused however.

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