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Out of touch

March 10, 2013

The Feb. 10 edition of the Sun-Gazette printed a letter written by Rev. Robert H. Logan, an Eagle Scou....

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(27)

ToTEXASfromPA

Mar-12-13 7:23 PM

In some of the laws that were given to the early Israelites......“But if the man meets the engaged woman out in the country, and he rapes her, then only the man must die. Do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no crime worthy of death. She is as innocent as a murder victim. Since the man raped her out in the country, it must be assumed that she screamed, but there was no one to rescue her." Deut 22:25-27

God said rape is a bad enough crime that the man should be killed. Of course to implement capital punishment in that culture, there had to be at least two witnesses. After a guilty verdict, the witnesses were the first to throw a stone.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Mar-12-13 7:10 PM

"For my angel will go before you and bring you into the land of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites, so you may live there. And I will destroy them completely. You must not worship the gods of these nations or serve them in any way or imitate their evil practices. Instead, you must utterly destroy them and smash their sacred pillars."--Exodus 23:23

God who is holy, righteous, and just was judging them because of their evil. A system of justice was implementing judgement. Some of these groups would even sacrifice babies and children. These people and cultures were not following moral laws so God used the Israelite nation to implement it.

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Class144

Mar-12-13 8:36 AM

"So maybe in the future you won't bring up these up again."

I'm sure you would like that. You are certainly free to rationalize the OT in any way you please, however, there's no disputing that the OT god is a moral monster. How can you defend the Hebrews when they were commanded by God to rid Canaan of its wicked inhabitants or enslave them. How can Christians defend God’s authorization of Genocide. What about rape and child abuse? As you defend these acts, what does that make you? A proponent of evil acts?

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ToTEXASfromPA

Mar-11-13 9:00 PM

Cont>>>

God's laws in the Old Testament may seem arbitrary and capricious to us but they were given to the Israelites to reinforce the concept of holy (set apart) and unholy. They helped them to follow and do what God wanted them to do, with no questions asked or no necessary reason. By following these, the people were less likely to eat meals and socialize with pagan, idolatrous peoples around them. These specific laws were not written for Christians and Gentiles; however, there are some that were given in the Old Testament for all and were even re-emphasized in the New Testament.

So maybe in the future you won't bring up these up again.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Mar-11-13 8:59 PM

Class144 you were the one asserting that me and my Christian brothers should be picketing the seafood restaurants. It falls on you to show why the Bible doesn't want us to eat seafood.

You are probably referring to the following verses: "Then the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Give the following instructions to the people of Israel." Lev11:1-2

"But you must never eat animals from the sea or from rivers that do not have both fins and scales. They are detestable to you. This applies both to little creatures that live in shallow water and to all creatures that live in deep water. They will always be detestable to you. You must never eat their meat or even touch their dead bodies.". --Lev 11:10-11

"“No, Lord,” Peter declared. “I have never eaten anything that our Jewish laws have declared impure and unclean.” But the voice spoke again: “Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean.”-- Acts10:14-15

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mikekerstetter

Mar-11-13 5:05 PM

Tex, apparently they think there were Christians in the old testament days.

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MrShaman

Mar-11-13 8:35 AM

"From an early age we are taught by our religious leaders to only accept people who are the same as us."

Not sure what church you went to, but that is certainly not true of any church I've been to." - mikekerstetter

*

That'd be the Christian Church.

See:

Biblical Intolerance

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Class144

Mar-11-13 7:46 AM

"The Bible doesn't instruct Christians or pagans to refrain from eating shellfish. Where are you getting this?"

Don't you feel downright silly when a non-believer knows more Biblical scripture than yourself? I suggest you start studying more. Stop watching all those Soprano reruns.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Mar-11-13 6:26 AM

"The Bible also calls eating shellfish an abomination, however, why is it we never see you and your minions picketing seafood restaurants?"

+++

The Bible doesn't instruct Christians or pagans to refrain from eating shellfish. Where are you getting this?

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Bufftrev1

Mar-10-13 8:16 PM

I agree, David.. nobuds post was spot on. Btw, did you know Daud is David in both Arabic and Assyrian.. pronounced Da-ood.

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DavidBross

Mar-10-13 7:44 PM

Excellent post, Nobud74!

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Class144

Mar-10-13 4:28 PM

No hasty retreat here. There is no point in discussing issues with those whose only purpose is to antagonize. "After attempting to explain it, it's apparent to me that there is no intent on your part to discuss it in adult terms and you are only here to ridicule and antagonize."

No, you are only seeking to provide assertions, your opinion, when any person with a rudimentary education can read what is written in black and white. I find it odd that there are so many opinions among Christians when it comes to Biblical meanings. However, that can't detract from the rapes, child abuse, and other 'event' that go against the laws of nature and hence fall into the realm of myth. Also, the Bible is filled with contradictions. I was led to believe your god could not make mistakes?

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mikekerstetter

Mar-10-13 3:54 PM

No hasty retreat here. There is no point in discussing issues with those whose only purpose is to antagonize. After attempting to explain it, it's apparent to me that there is no intent on your part to discuss it in adult terms and you are only here to ridicule and antagonize.

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Class144

Mar-10-13 12:37 PM

"Class, as I've suspected all along, you have no desire to learn anything from the Bible or about the Bible. I'll just go back to ignoring your posts. Have a nice day."

Having read the bible several times, I've learned enough to know it certainly rivals Harry Potter. Yes, like most Christians who are confronted with logic and reason, including what the bible says in black and white, you make a hasty retreat. However, don't despair. I'm sure you have many sycophants who view you as the know-all of everything biblical, including the rapes, slavery, torture, child abuse, misogyny, and other fun and games the bible says your god was responsible for.

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nobud74

Mar-10-13 11:25 AM

While both sides are fairly set in their thinking, let me ask a couple of questions. If your child was gay, would you say they were unable to be a scout or a scout leader? If you have gay friends, as I do, would you say they are incapable of bestowing the teachings and good works of the scouts upon the kids? I find it sad that so many, some of my family members included, who thump their bibles and demean others in a less than christian manner. We all have skeletons in our closets. We all know those who have alternative lifestyles, and personally, I find most of those people to be far more inclusive, tolerant and loving than many others. Hope I didn't offend too many, but we live in a different world today and we need to move with it or get run over by it. Just ask the GOP how well their past 20 years of stagnation on policy are working for them.

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mikekerstetter

Mar-10-13 10:14 AM

Class, as I've suspected all along, you have no desire to learn anything from the Bible or about the Bible. I'll just go back to ignoring your posts. Have a nice day.

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Class144

Mar-10-13 9:57 AM

"Class, as the saying goes, I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. That applies here."

Ass the saying goes, you are are trying to defend the indefensible. Either the Bible is the infallible word of God, which means everything in it is true, or it is fallible, which means it's allegorical and not true.

If, as most Fundamentalists do, you believe the former, then you also believe in talking snakes, the young earth, zombies rising from the dead, and murdering children for working on the Sabbath, be it a ceremonial murder, or otherwise.

You can claim fulfillment any way you like, but the commands are still there in scripture. Please, let me know once you make up your mind?

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mikekerstetter

Mar-10-13 9:46 AM

Class, as the saying goes, I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. That applies here.

There is a huge difference between 'reporting' what went on at the time and what was being condoned. Likewise, you've got to realize that there were three kinds of laws given in the Bible; moral, ceremonial and civil. The latter two were fulfilled with Jesus' crucifixion and Resurrection, the moral laws were not. Eating shellfish was a Ceremonial law. Homosexuality is a Moral law. Therein lies the difference.

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rick424

Mar-10-13 9:14 AM

This is an excellent letter and so far good comments on the subject. I still think of Marcus Bachmann trying to counsel gays to become straight.

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rick424

Mar-10-13 9:11 AM

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Class144

Mar-10-13 8:55 AM

"if a Christian religion says homosexuality is wrong, they are attacked."

Attacked? Maybe if Pat Robertson and his gang would stay out of people's bedrooms, schools, and public offices, they would not suffer so much negativity. Christians think they have the right to tell two people who are in love that they can't be married. But times are changing. People are leaving organized religion in droves, and the world's a better place for it.

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Class144

Mar-10-13 8:52 AM

"The Bible calls Homosexuality an abomination, a sexual sin, sexual immorality."

The Bible also calls eating shellfish an abomination, however, why is it we never see you and your minions picketing seafood restaurants? The Bible also calls for murdering children who work on the Sabbath. You are free to practice selective quoting of scripture, but anyone who has read the bible knows it is filled with acts of murder, rape, and misogyny, as well as being contradictory in nature, which means it's imperfect and certainly not inspired by any god. It's a book children should not be forced to follow.

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eriklatranyi

Mar-10-13 7:39 AM

You gotta love liberals. They just named a CIA director who said Jihad us a legitimate tenet of Islam and they were silent.

If a Christian religion says homosexuality is wrong, they are attacked.

Selective outrage illustrates liberal hypocrisy.

In other words, you have freedom of religion, providing you believe what liberals allow you to believe.

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mikekerstetter

Mar-10-13 7:03 AM

USABorn-"Neither GOD nor JESUS condemned homosexuals in the Bible."

I respectfully disagree. If you believe in God and Jesus Christ, you believe that the Bible is God's Word, yes, written by men, but inspired by God.

The Bible calls Homosexuality an abomination, a sexual sin, sexual immorality. There are many references to sexual immorality in the bible. Here are 2.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites- 1 Corinthians 6:9

Keep away from sexual immorality. All other sins that people may commit are done outside the body; but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Do you not realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you and whom you received from God? You are not your own property, then; you have been bought at a price. So use your body for the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 6:18-20

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mikekerstetter

Mar-10-13 6:49 AM

"rejecting a human being, created by God no less, because he or she is "different," is morally wrong!"

So, I guess you think it's OK for anyone to lead our Children. After all, the local drug dealer, gang banger and prostitute were also made by God. What better role models, right? Wrong, most parents want their children lead by morally upstanding people. If it's known someone is less than moral, organizations have an obligation to keep them from our Children. And while some Church's, most notably the Catholic Church, haven't fared well in that department, it doesn't excuse other organizations from doing their best to do it.

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