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History lesson

March 13, 2013

Around the same time the original 13 states were adopting our new Constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler, professor of history at the University of Edinborough, had this to say about......

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Tedeaux

Mar-14-13 5:40 AM

While I agree with the logic behind the quote in this letter, it has been falsely attributed to many famous sources in the distant past.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Mar-14-13 6:15 AM

A few other attributed quotes for the day....

“Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.” ? Alexis de Tocqueville

“Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.” ? Alexis de Tocqueville

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MrShaman

Mar-14-13 6:20 AM

"A democracy will continue to exist until the time that the voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." - Phil Miller

*

Gee...there have been lobbyists, around, since 1787; whatta "shocker".

I guess that's why Tom Jefferson said..."I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

Who KNEW the Koch Brothers were (actually) another o' those "American Traditions"?

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eriklatranyi

Mar-14-13 6:23 AM

Even if President Obama came out tomorrow and declared himself First Emperor of America, liberals would blame Bush and the GOP for forcing Obama's hand because they did not give him everything he asked for.

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MrShaman

Mar-14-13 6:30 AM

"While I agree with the logic behind the quote in this letter..." - Tedeaux

*

Logic?

Whenever there's an agenda, where there's an obsession with terms like "never", or "always", as in..."those nations have always progressed"...there's no logic, involved; only people who are DESPERATE to convince OTHERS they know what they're talking-about.

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MrShaman

Mar-14-13 6:33 AM

"Even if President Obama came out tomorrow and declared himself First Emperor of America..." - eriklatranyi

*

Gee...another "conservative"-hypothetical...how "surprising".

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CHayes

Mar-14-13 7:22 AM

Another quote frequently used in a chain email with many variants, and another right winger advocating suspending elections and moving to a totalitarian govt.

Yawn.

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CHayes

Mar-14-13 7:24 AM

"Even if President Obama came out tomorrow and declared himself First Emperor of America, liberals would blame Bush and the GOP for forcing Obama's hand"

What a strange comment to be attached to a letter in which ANOTHER right winger essentially calls for suspending elections and any citizen participation in our govt.

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MBardo

Mar-14-13 7:38 AM

CHayes, you may want to reread the letter. The writer is not even close to advocating suspending elections. He is however warning all of us about the direction he sees our country heading.

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CHayes

Mar-14-13 7:43 AM

Sorry MBardo, but perhaps YOU should reread the letter. The letter writer states without equivocation, that EVERY society in history that citizens have picked their own leaders, has come completely unglued in about 200 years.

He is either speaking against elections, or for unglued societies. Take your pick.

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eriklatranyi

Mar-14-13 7:53 AM

No, CHayes. He is not advocating eliminating elections.

But that is the liberal cure, isn't it? Free people who vote representatives tend to devolve into bondage over time, so the solution is to take away their right to vote.

Or is it free people who own firearms tend to have more firearm-related suicides, so the answer is to take away all their firearms!

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MrShaman

Mar-14-13 8:26 AM

"CHayes, you may want to reread the letter. The writer is not even close to advocating suspending elections. He is however warning all of us about the direction he sees our country heading." - MBardo

*

...By suggesting the "majority"'s vote is bought...rather-than recognizing the obvious; that a MINORITY (i.e. corporations, magically transformed into "people") is actually buying the government we (now) have.

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MrShaman

Mar-14-13 8:33 AM

"Sorry MBardo, but perhaps YOU should reread the letter. The letter writer states without equivocation, that EVERY society in history that citizens have picked their own leaders, has come completely unglued in about 200 years." - CHayes

*

No doubt. About the (only) things, missing, in that letter, were openings, like..."I GUARANTEE YOU...", and, that other ol' fave..."YOU KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN, DON'T YOU??"

You'd think such people would have quite the extensive record of lottery-win$!

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MrShaman

Mar-14-13 8:36 AM

"Free people who vote representatives tend to devolve into bondage over time..." - eriklatranyi

*

Gee...what "convincing" examples you'd referenced!!!

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Bufftrev1

Mar-14-13 8:55 AM

Wrong as usual, eric.. it's the right that's trying to restrict voting. Remember all those state laws, the ones that the courts largely threw out?

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CHayes

Mar-14-13 9:04 AM

"No, CHayes. He is not advocating eliminating elections.

But that is the liberal cure, isn't it?"

No actually the "liberal cure" is one person, one vote. Note I said "person" rather than "corporation".

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CHayes

Mar-14-13 9:10 AM

"Wrong as usual, eric.. it's the right that's trying to restrict voting. Remember all those state laws, the ones that the courts largely threw out?'

And then there's the gerrymandering, fake absentee ballot request forms, and flyers and phone calls telling likely Democratic voters that "election day has changed", or "your polling place has moved".

The theme that democratic institutions are 'evil" has been a recurring theme for the hard right for quite some time. I imagine it's the result of feeling constantly outnumbered, and feeling like a perpetual victim of imaginary conspiracy theories.

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enigma

Mar-14-13 9:12 AM

Our founders did not like democracy and that is why they didn't create one. This country has never been a democracy and should not be. The problem is that there are those who want to turn it into one and have made great strides in that direction. The largest of these was the 17th Amendment. If we hope to save the country from the "tyranny of the majority", we need to repeal that amendment and return the country to a republic as it was designed.

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CMReeder

Mar-14-13 9:16 AM

LOL

Amazing how negative the right is. Democracy will be our ruin. Yet when they vote to go to war it is to bring DEMOCRACY to the people.

Ever time the right loses a big election they start this nonsense, they start looking for ways to suppress voters and voting. The majority should not have any say unless it is the right when they get the majority.

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CHayes

Mar-14-13 9:22 AM

"Our founders did not like democracy and that is why they didn't create one. This country has never been a democracy and should not be."

And this coming from a guy that posts fake Jefferson quotes, and says the Revolutionary War started because the British tried to implement gun control.

Yeah, that's why they set up a system of elections.

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CHayes

Mar-14-13 9:24 AM

"This country has never been a democracy and should not be. The problem is that there are those who want to turn it into one and have made great strides in that direction."

Hey, doesn't the right have a love affair with ballot initiatives?

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CMReeder

Mar-14-13 9:26 AM

Tyler is a fake to begin with. This came from e-mail that has been circulating for some time and has been disprove time after time. But to the right it is real.

What is ignored by the right is that the states that get the most federal funding and federal programs is the states that voted for Republicans and Romney/Ryan. So guess who the takers really are - Republicans.

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philunderwood

Mar-14-13 9:42 AM

Corporations don’t vote politicians into office, individual voters do. Corporations and other special interests only influence politicians after they’re voted into office. The sentiment expressed in the letter is accurate; we see it transpiring right now.

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CMReeder

Mar-14-13 9:54 AM

But it isn't accurate it is all made up. Which proves that those on the right really do not rely on facts just what sounds really, really good to them.

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CMReeder

Mar-14-13 9:54 AM

'Corporations are people too, my friend!'

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