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Grieved

April 14, 2013

As I read the article on churches being divided on same-sex unions, I was grieved to read of one minister’s statement, “Scriptural prohibitions against homosexuality are as irrelevant today as......

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(29)

eriklatranyi

Apr-14-13 7:00 AM

This is not hate, folks.

This is hating the sin, loving the sinner.

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Shihan

Apr-14-13 7:15 AM

AMEN !

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rick424

Apr-14-13 7:23 AM

"This is hating the sin, loving the sinner."

Tell that to a 13 year old. Tell that to anyone who is put down everyday because God made them the way they are. Guns and Gays, this is going to be a fun day. Rev, times are a changing just as they have done through out time. Stop spreading hate and spread love.

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DavidBross

Apr-14-13 7:44 AM

"eating shellfish, mixing fabrics, or women speaking in church." The author doesn't say these prohibitions are relevant. In fact, I gather he believes they are irrelevant. So, I wonder, if parts of the Bible, in this case parts of the Old Testament, are no longer relevant, but other parts of it are, how does one go about making that distinction?

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enigma

Apr-14-13 8:03 AM

David, Much better. Today you are addressing the subject of the letter. Shellfish and mixed fabrics were cultural prohibitions and not specifically called sin. Homosexuality is specifically forbidden as sin in both the Old and New Testaments. It is understandable that a non-believer would make that mistake, but it is willful ignorance that allows a Christian to make statements declaring the prohibition on homosexuality null and void. The Reverend is correct in his statements. I do not expect non-believers to agree, but anyone who claims to believe in the Bible should. This letter concerns Christian belief and the disagreements in the Church. Your question is valid, but not always a simple answer. There are some however that are simple. This is one of them. Throughout the Bible, homosexuality is declared to be sin. While some things do change, sin does not.

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USABorn

Apr-14-13 8:17 AM

The Bible tells us that homosexuality is wrong.

It is "TELLING US" this, just as the 10 Commandments "TELL US" that murder, i.e., is wrong.

It is INSTRUCTION to each of us. It is NOT given to us as a license to JUDGE others.

I have read the Bible cover to cover many times, and NOWHERE have I ever read where we are instructed to judge our fellow man/woman.

Those who JUDGE homosexuals are hypocrits and I believe GOD will have a few choice words for them when THEIR time of judgement arrives.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Apr-14-13 8:19 AM

"So, I wonder, if parts of the Bible, in this case parts of the Old Testament, are no longer relevant, but other parts of it are, how does one go about making that distinction?"--DB

+

Some of the Old Testament was specifically aimed at just the nation of Israel and states it. Other portions were meant for all mankind. It is just like some of these LTE's are targeted to a specific individual while all can read them; others are intended for anyone to comment on.

The New Testament also contains scripture that show where old ways were replaced by new. SO YOU HAVE TO READ THE NEW TESTAMENT.

One of the changes was when Christ died on the cross. His sacrifice paid for all sins in the past, present, and future. There was no longer need to repeatedly go to the temple to sacrifice a dove, lamb, or bull for sins. But these temple sacrifices were important because they showed the significance for the need of a sacrifice to pay for sin; Jesus did it once for all.

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eriklatranyi

Apr-14-13 8:28 AM

rick:

Kids are "put down" by their peers for many things other than their sexual orientation.

The wrong clothing earns ridicule today.

With social media, it is even worse as we all know, too many hide behind pseudonyms on the internet and spew hate for the most innane reasons.

So, your example is just a microscopic example of a larger problem that will never go away.

Kids are cruel to each other sometimes. This has been true throughout history.

Learning such cruelty is wrong is part of growing up, not a need for federal legislation.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Apr-14-13 8:47 AM

"I have read the Bible cover to cover many times, and NOWHERE have I ever read where we are instructed to judge our fellow man/woman."

++

Then why do we have laws and a judicial system where there is either trial by judge or jury? Or have you ever disciplined your child? Information is gathered, testimony is provided, an analysis of the facts is made, and a judgment is made. The result is either acquittal or sentencing.

We judge all the time. The key is to remove the timber from one's own eye so that they can clearly see the spec in another's eye. Many times we point to other's short-comings and need to recognize and deal with sin in our own lives. Matt 7:3-5

A person is criticized for not applying the same standards to himself that he applies to others.

Thanks be to God and His Son, Jesus Christ, that make forgiveness and salvation available to all.

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rick424

Apr-14-13 8:54 AM

Gays are being put down by adults. Even the LTE. That makes it worse. Don't give that BS that it is hating the sin. It is hating the person for who he is. A choice they had no say in.

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philunderwood

Apr-14-13 9:08 AM

Sin is a religious concept and should be a basis for believers to guide their beliefs and actions, but sin shouldn’t be a basis for our laws. As for the straw man argument of murder, robbery and so on being allowed if we don’t consider other sinful activities illegal, these are crimes against others and are quite properly against the law. Same sex unions between consenting adults, while sinful in the eyes of some, infringe upon no one’s rights.

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CMReeder

Apr-14-13 9:19 AM

This is letter saying it is okay to hate because God said so. Of course they disguise with we hate the sin not the sinner except they are punishing the sinner not the sin.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-14-13 3:14 PM

USABorn-"Those who JUDGE homosexuals are hypocrits and I believe GOD will have a few choice words for them when THEIR time of judgement arrives."

USA, I believe I've asked you this question before but can't remember if you gave me an answer; What do you consider 'judging'?

If you are stating that treating homosexuals discriminatorily or cruelly, I can agree with you.

If you're saying that merely stating that homosexuality is a sin is judging, I believe you are clearly wrong in your thoughts.

If you are saying that judging is to oppose gay marriage on the grounds that God ordained marriage as one man and one woman and because we feel supporting gay marriage is condoning a sinful lifestyle, I think you are also wrong in your assertion.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-14-13 3:18 PM

CMReeder-"This is letter saying it is okay to hate because God said so. Of course they disguise with we hate the sin not the sinner except they are punishing the sinner not the sin."

Chuck, you really ought to do something about your lack of reading comprehension skills. No where in this letter does it say anything about 'hating' homosexuals or anyone else. You've become quite the flamer.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-14-13 3:27 PM

rick424-"Gays are being put down by adults. Even the LTE. That makes it worse. Don't give that BS that it is hating the sin. It is hating the person for who he is. A choice they had no say in."

Rick, I disagree. Stating that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin is hardly putting anyone down. The truth is the Bible says we are all sinners in one form or another.

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enigma

Apr-14-13 4:43 PM

Chuck,"This is letter saying it is okay to hate because God said so. Of course they disguise with we hate the sin not the sinner except they are punishing the sinner not the sin."

Chuck does not need any book to tell him who to hate. He hates anyone who does not agree with him. He is the biggest hypocrite in the world when it comes to talk about hate. He is the biggest hater I have ever encountered, but that's OK because he believes he's god. He is the final arbiter of right and wrong. BTW Chuck, it is not hate to allow someone to suffer the consequences of their actions, it is justice.

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enigma

Apr-14-13 4:49 PM

rick,"It is hating the person for who he is. A choice they had no say in."

You're not buying that 'born gay' thing are you? That has been totally debunked. There is no scientific evidence for that notion. It is however, great propaganda. But as Mike said, we are all sinners. We need to turn away from sin and toward Jesus Christ and we will be forgiven. I don't hate sinners of any kind, or I would just let them continue on in sin without letting them know that there is a way out. Being a Christian I am no stranger to hate, I encounter it all the time from the antitheist crowd.

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rick424

Apr-14-13 4:56 PM

Show me where being born gay is debunked. Mike, again, tell that to a 13 year old who is very confused. You guys have a strange way of showing your Christianity.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-14-13 5:21 PM

rick424-"You guys have a strange way of showing your Christianity."

Really? You find it strange that we tell you what the Bible says?

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rick424

Apr-14-13 7:07 PM

I find it odd. Somehow love and goodness escapes you guys. In case you haven't figured this out, this subject is near and dear to me. So you are just making me mad and I am going to stop. Never saw so much hate as I have seen here. Cheers.

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DavidBross

Apr-14-13 7:14 PM

Christianity has been divided on many issues. Homosexuality is just one of them. However, I consider it progress that Christianity has moved beyond torture, and burning at the stake as a way to settle differences. Let's hope it stays that way.

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DavidBross

Apr-14-13 7:21 PM

I was going to add "war" to the list of consequences Christians no longer inflict on those who disagree with them. That, however, is not true. I will agree that Islam has more adherents who support violence now than Christianity. But, that has not always been the case. WWI was essentially a "family fight" amongst members of a very Christian family. And then we had Northern Ireland's religious conflict that lasted centuries. Also, I very much agree with Phil's post.

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Bufftrev1

Apr-14-13 8:21 PM

Hi David.. let's not forget that gw himself proclaimed in an interview that he believed to be doing gods work by invading Iraq..

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Ritty77

Apr-14-13 8:54 PM

Always with he history lessons and moral equivalence. As much "hate" you ascribe to Christians, in present day, currently, homosexuals are being executed as a matter of law, and it ain't Christians doing it.

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USABorn

Apr-14-13 11:42 PM

mikekerstetter - 3:14 PM

"If you are stating that treating homosexuals discriminatorily or cruelly, I can agree with you."

In order to treat a homosexual differently or to deny them the same happiness as a heterosexual, you must FIRST JUDGE THEIR LIFESTYLE. In judging their lifestyle in order to deny them anything, you are judging them. Why is it so hard to understand?

And to equate JUDGING a homosexual on the same level with JUDGING a murderer? How absurd.

A murderer is convicted based on the testimony of witnesses, CSI people, evidence, etc. A homosexual is convicted on NOTHING other then sexual preference and based on a person's PERSONAL OPINION.

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