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Apples and oranges

April 28, 2013

I read David Bross' letter in which he equates the turmoil over same-sex marriages as equivalent to the mixed-race marriage issue of a distant past....

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(38)

JohnMBower

May-01-13 5:18 PM

Also, the Bible defines marriage as a union between a man and a *virgin* and your god commands that women found not to be pure on their wedding night be murdered by a mob wielding stones. That book is seriously messed-up, you know. It should probably be banned.

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JohnMBower

May-01-13 4:51 PM

If I don't believe in your gods, why should I be forced to live by their laws?

We don't live in a Christian country, we live in a country where the division of church and state is one of our most basic tenets.

Stop trying to force others to live by the rules of your mythical figures.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-30-13 1:29 PM

Meredith-"Wow. I guess I hit a nerve huh? I don't know who Chuck is but if correcting a false "fact" disrupts your argument so easily then you don't have much of an argument."

Really, calling someone a bigot is correcting a false fact? You need to come up with something better than that.

Now to your claim that marriage dates back further than 'biblical times', you haven't offered me much in the way of proof.

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Meredith

Apr-30-13 11:42 AM

"and then here comes Meredith and her sidekick Chuck to stir the pot. You two are a perfect example as to why there is no cooperation and compromise between the two sides any more."

Wow. I guess I hit a nerve huh? I don't know who Chuck is but if correcting a false "fact" disrupts your argument so easily then you don't have much of an argument.

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Meredith

Apr-30-13 11:32 AM

"And your proof to either of those assertions is?"

Are you really asking for proof that people entered into marriages before Biblical times? Marriage was not invented by the Bible. The Bible simply defines it for it's followers the way the Koran defines it differently for it's followers. Ancient marriage varied in many ways from modern marriage depending on the participants culture or religion. It hasn't always been one man and one woman.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-29-13 2:13 PM

tpowell, I agree with your proposal.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-29-13 2:10 PM

Meredith-"It's interesting to see such bigotry from someone who promised to spread the word of God. Does God want us to help or hinder one another? If you don't want to participate in gay marriage then don't but don't fool yourself into thinking you have the right to deny others their happiness. Marriage is not a religious contract. A religious marriage is, but not all marriages are religious."

We have someone opposed to Gay marriage and someone who is gay having an open discussion and working on a compromise that will appease both sides...... and then here comes Meredith and her sidekick Chuck to stir the pot. You two are a perfect example as to why there is no cooperation and compromise between the two sides any more.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-29-13 2:06 PM

Meredith-""without having to redefine a term created in biblical times" Actually marriage existed before biblical times." -""Actually YOU and others are fighting to change the definition of marriage" Christians changed it long ago. So actually we're trying to change it AGAIN."

And your proof to either of those assertions is???

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Meredith

Apr-29-13 11:59 AM

"without having to redefine a term created in biblical times"

Actually marriage existed before biblical times.

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Meredith

Apr-29-13 11:57 AM

"Actually YOU and others are fighting to change the definition of marriage" Christians changed it long ago. So actually we're trying to change it AGAIN.

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Meredith

Apr-29-13 11:54 AM

It's interesting to see such bigotry from someone who promised to spread the word of God. Does God want us to help or hinder one another? If you don't want to participate in gay marriage then don't but don't fool yourself into thinking you have the right to deny others their happiness. Marriage is not a religious contract. A religious marriage is, but not all marriages are religious.

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CMReeder

Apr-29-13 9:01 AM

It is a legal matter and it does belong in the Courts.

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CMReeder

Apr-29-13 9:00 AM

"Actually YOU and others are fighting to change the definition of marriage. There is no discrimination involved except in your convoluted mind."

It's also a legal definition and that is what you are preventing and discriminating against. The Bible does not give you the license to discriminate.

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eriklatranyi

Apr-28-13 7:44 PM

tpowell:

Welcome to the forums.

You hit the nail on the head.

This issue is not about civil rights or discrimination. It's about the legal status of homosexual couples.

That is a legislative matter, not one that should be in the courts.

Redefining marriage is a flawed fix to this problem taken by a few as "easy".

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Ritty77

Apr-28-13 7:08 PM

I've seen a few times here that marriage is a religious pact, not a legal one. I thought it was the other way around. Don't the states issue a marriage license which then is used to legally speak for minor children, arrange for SS spousal benefits, get certain tax breaks, etc.?

My parents were married at the local Magistrate's office. There were blood tests and forms to fill out, but not a hint of religion.

Can't the government legally recognize a union of same-sex life partners and let individual religions/denominations determine whether they wish to sanction such unions if the couple wishes to have the religious blessing of the union?

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philunderwood

Apr-28-13 7:01 PM

Mike, if they don’t believe in Christianity, they won’t adhere to Christian morality either; in fact that’s a good part of our problems now. You need look no farther than the philosophies of the enlightenment for consistent morality. That’s what our founders based our country on. The only reason our morality is a moving target is because religious folks and Progressives want to make up their own morality by using a liberal interpretation of the Constitution.

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tpowell

Apr-28-13 6:48 PM

Hello mike. I think that the only real solution is for the powers that be that allow lawful unions need to quit using the word marriage. That's your word not the gov't. The challenge will be for the secular world to abandon the word in reference to any union that is not ordained by a religious institution.

I was making a slight jab at the whole civil rights arguement by referencing Jim Crow laws. Though I do believe that the whole philosophy is poisonous to a more perfect union.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-28-13 6:11 PM

philunderwood-"All philosophies, religious or not, have morality as a major component. The morality is meaningless if one doesn't accept the philosophy."

True, but without an 'absolute' morality (which the Christian faith teaches), morality is a moving target and is in a constant state of decline because people are less likely to embrace a moral code that keeps them from doing what they want to do.

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mikekerstetter

Apr-28-13 6:04 PM

tpowell, yep, I am a firm believer that Marriage is defined as a man and a woman. But I am OK with giving gay couples the same privileges given to Married couples. You say the whole 'separate but equal' thing didn't work out in the past. Not sure what you are referring to with that statement, but what do you propose to come up with an amicable solution to the gay marriage issue?

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philunderwood

Apr-28-13 5:51 PM

All philosophies, religious or not, have morality as a major component. The morality is meaningless if one doesn’t accept the philosophy.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Apr-28-13 5:09 PM

"Religion only has an effect on morality for true believers of the religion."

+++

The word religion has a broad definition and many time detracts from or dilutes the concept of true believers (Christians - little Christs) following Jesus Christ as their Lord. Jesus was not just a teacher bringing a new moral law into to the world, nor was he just a leader aspiring to be the earthly king of the J*ews, nor was he just a prophet with futurist predictions, nor was he just a great communicator that got people to believe in themselves and feel better. Jesus is the second person of the Godhead, God incarnate.

God gave mankind a set of morals written in their heart when they were created in His image. Morals are based on an absolute right and wrong from God, not a relative set of rules and codes of conduct that vary from religion to religion or from age to age.

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tpowell

Apr-28-13 4:42 PM

Hi everyone. Homosexual here. Um... I find that most people here are really adamant about the word marriage and that the whole crux of this issue is the redefinition of it. I can honestly say that I don't care about a word. Keep your word if its that special to you. But the whole "seperate but equal" thing didn't really work in the past so we need to come up with something better to appease both sides.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Apr-28-13 3:49 PM

"I brought up once before that the original Greek writings of the scriptures never mention homosexuality and that it was common in biblical times. It apparently was brought up in the translations during the 17th century. No one ever got back to me on that." ---rick424 ++

Why waste my time since you already have your mind made up and would rather listen to people of like mind even if they only had a limited education.

If you are really interested in learning from people whose primary job involves biblical interpretation taking into account the Greek language, Roman/Greek/J*ew*ish cultures of the times, context of the verses, context of similar writings by Paul, and putting it into modern language, I suggest that you get the New International Commentary on the New Testament by Gordon D. Fee on the First Epistle to the Corinthians. He provides commentary on the 1 Corin 6:10 use of the word "arsenokoitai". Enjoy.

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enigma

Apr-28-13 2:55 PM

Chuck,"The Bible does not give you a license to discriminate."

Who's discriminating? I am fine with gays getting married. What I don't want is for marriage to be redefined. Gays do not want to get married because marriage is one man and one woman. They want to change that definition. Since marriage is first and foremost a religious construct, it should not be redefined outside of the religious sphere. If gays want to live together and draw up contracts, and if the government want to recognize those contracts, then so be it, but to call it marriage is an affront to every religion, including Islam, to which liberals are so deferential. This is not about equal right for gays, it is about religious rights for all.

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cutman

Apr-28-13 12:49 PM

rick424: The Bible does use the Greek word arsenokoitai in various places. Quite simply, it means "Man Sex" which is now another way of saying homosexuality. Even if it did not say anything on homosexuality, silence of the source is not a valid argument. After all, the Bible never mentions about getting high on cocaine (and I hope you believe that that is wrong).

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