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Facts say state liquor store system is no safety net

May 16, 2013

One of the arguments of naysayers to liquor privatization in Pennsylvania is that state control of the system creates a safety net against alcohol-related dangers and addiction....

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(24)

WillAcker

May-29-13 9:54 PM

Once again JohnRz can't find the facts. Try going to Madd, click on drunk driving, then click information by state.

"The ranking system is based on the percentage of total traffic deaths in each state that are DUI related, with the state ranked 1 having the lowest percentage of DUI related deaths & the state ranked 51 (D.C. is included as a separate entry) as having the highest percentage of DUI related deaths in 2010."

Click on PA and amazing it says that we are 35th. It has nothing to do with the Commonwealth Foundation that he sees behind every rock but the data comes from the Federal Government. Maybe they are part of the get rid of the PLCB conspiracy too.

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JohnRz

May-26-13 3:51 AM

The only place you will find Pa rated 35th by MADD is a study called "MADD rating the states". It has nothing to do with anything but enforcement, penalties, and the use of ignition interlocks. The "layman's explanation" article is based on a policy brief from the Concentration of Wealth Foundation. Where are the studies saying open recreational drug sales makes for a better society? Sorry but Bill tried to pull a snow job with this article. Ain't working. See the latest Franklin and Marshall poll. People aren't stupid.

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WillAcker

May-21-13 2:47 PM

Now you did it. Confused him with facts contrary to his known set of ideas.

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GreywolfPA

May-21-13 1:42 PM

"This ranking system has nothing to with DUI or how we sell our booze."

The MADD ranking has nothing to do with DUI?

From MADD****

Information by State Click on your state on our interactive map and find total traffic deaths in each state that are DUI Related.

The ranking system is based on the percentage of total traffic deaths in each state that are DUI related, with the state ranked 1 having the lowest percentage of DUI related deaths & the state ranked 51 (D.C. is included as a separate entry) as having the highest percentage of DUI related deaths in 2010.

-2011 Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) ****nhtsa.gov/FARS

One correction, it would seem both Maryland and Delaware rank below Pennsylvania.

***********madd****/drunk-driving/state-stats/

BTW - Thanks for the tip to google for it.

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WillAcker

May-21-13 12:43 PM

All that space to quote a study that is already being reported as using bad methodology and science. For a layman's explanation search for "The CDC Goes To War Against Wine"

Of course we can use Mr. RZ's logic and say that such increase in sales of 4.5-122% will be a boon for the state with hundred of millions in increased taxes collected. Doesn't look like they can use the argument that the state will lose money anymore.

Interestingly enough Mr. RZ doesn't use the numbers from the CDC study he originally quoted to back up his claim. Could it be that PA is only above average in that one area?

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JohnRz

May-21-13 11:25 AM

Seventeen studies assessed the effects of privatization on per capita alcohol sales, a well-established proxy for excessive alcohol consumption and related harms. Overall, there was a 44.4% median increase in per capita sales of privatized alcoholic beverages within the jurisdiction that underwent privatization during the years following privatization of retail alcohol sales (interquartile interval [IQI]: 4.5% to 122.5%; 17 studies). During this same time frame, sales of nonprivatized alcoholic beverages within the jurisdiction that underwent privatization decreased by a median of 2.2% (IQI: -6.6% to -0.1%; 9 studies). One study in Finland assessed the effects of privatization for groups reporting different levels of alcohol consumption. It found privatization increased consumption across all groups. One study in Sweden found that re-monopolizing the sale of medium-strength beer was associated with a general reduction in alcohol-related harms.

-The CD

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JohnRz

May-21-13 11:08 AM

"Mothers Against Drunken Driving ranks Pennsylvania 35th in DUI safety, worse than all bordering states but Delaware." Quote from the article. Time for the author to admit he just used Commonwealth foundation talking points. Google "MADD rating the states". This ranking system has nothing to with DUI or how we sell our booze. Yet it's used as "evidenvce" to try to convince an unsuspecting public.

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JohnRz

May-21-13 11:02 AM

Based on its charge to identify effective disease and injury prevention measures, the Community Preventive Services Task Force recommends against the further privatization of alcohol sales in settings with current government control of retail sales. This finding is based on strong evidence that privatization results in increased per capita alcohol consumption, a well-established proxy for excessive consumption and related harms. From the CDC>

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JohnRz

May-21-13 10:59 AM

privatization of retail alcohol sales leads to increases in excessive alcohol consumption. (Am J Prev Med 2012;42(4):418–427) Published by Elsevier Inc. on behalf of American Journal of Preventive Medicine Whatever you say Professor!

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WillAcker

May-21-13 7:18 AM

It seems that since Mr. Rz can't deny that the CDC report in total shows a different conclusion to the one single part he is looking at that he will attack something that I never mentioned in a way to distract the reader. However, his childish attempt does not change the fact that the CDC report shows PA is not one of the better states for alcohol abuse and that he PLCB has little effect on those statistics.

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eriklatranyi

May-21-13 6:17 AM

that is child p-o-r-n-o-g-r-a-p-h-y

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eriklatranyi

May-21-13 6:17 AM

So, according to JohnRz, if the state shut down all internet sites, it would cut down on child ***********, hence we should do it.

I can give you a big gov't that has great statistics.....you just will have no freedom to decide anything for yourself.

My bottom line is that the state does not belong in the liquor business. If people are so stupid as to abuse alcohol, then that is their right to be stupid.

Increase penalties for drunk driving, crashes, etc. Hold the abusers responsible for their decisions, do not punish the vast majority of responsible users of alcohol.

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JohnRz

May-20-13 8:59 PM

Dr. Acker agrees with the data but disagrees with the conclusions. His paper will soon be peer reviewed. Then he will have the last laugh and explain why "MADD rating the states" was used out of context. A deliberate lie. Google MADD rating the states, and peer review the lie yourself.

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WillAcker

May-20-13 1:30 PM

Well Mr. Rz, I did post peer reviewed data, the same data you are using to say how great the PLCB is. I'm just using the full report and not just one small line item out of the many they listed. Since I can't post a link here I'll have to trust you have some search engine ability and can look up the CDC Ardi info.

The point of the whole story is that the PLCB doesn't do a very good job of control since the vast majority of alcohol statistics are worse then most border states and the national averages of same.

Keep it up since it is amusing how you try to defend such an inept, pathetic organization. Maybe they can "emergency" hire you like they did with your CEO. You can sit around the wine kiosks and tell stories how great the PLCB is.

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JohnRz

May-20-13 8:06 AM

No Mr Wacker. Live in your little world of denial if you wish but you can't find one study that recommends privatization as a way to promote public safety. The author took the works of two groups that oppose privatization and cherry picked data from one and lied outright about another. You twist and turn like a trout on the line defending the lout. Just post some peer review science backing your claim and we will all believe you. Maybe even the Police groups, addiction counselors, emergency room workers and others that see the problems caused by booze will stop laughing.But you won't find any. If there were any Harrisburg would be buried in the paper. It simply doesn't exist.

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WillAcker

May-19-13 9:51 PM

As I said, you find one stat that PA does well at and that is supposed to over ride everything they don't do well which is just about every other alcohol related statistic. When taken in total the PLCB is a failure of control, customer service, selection and convenience. It should have been disbanded decades ago.

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JohnRz

May-19-13 11:38 AM

Related to is not caused by. Liver failure is an example of a death caused by alcohol. A death in a head on collision is caused by blunt force trauma. More collisions per mile driven drives up the Pa stats. Got it W. Acker? Like the lies told about MADD this BS comes from Commonwealth Foundation talking points that have long been debunked. With all this talk about death do you know that you can die from on the spot from drinking to much but not from smoking to much pot? Booze can get you at the exit too. You are more likely to die from alcohol withdrawal than ****** withdrawal. One powerful drug. I really never expect the user/defender to give up. It's not the nature of the drug to allow them to.

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WillAcker

May-19-13 8:40 AM

"Alcohol related is not caused by alcohol" Then why do they call it alcohol related? Talk about grasping at straws!

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JohnRz

May-19-13 8:20 AM

That is where the article twists numbers. Alcohol related is not caused by alcohol. See above. Pa has the lowest death rate from alcohol related disease in the country. Period. We have a lot of crappy roads causing a lot of accidents so how about the folks in Harrisburg start fixing them and quit worrying about Where the users by their booze.

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JohnRz

May-19-13 8:20 AM

That is where the article twists numbers. Alcohol related is not caused by alcohol. See above. Pa has the lowest death rate from alcohol related disease in the country. Period. We have a lot of crappy roads causing a lot of accidents so how about the folks in Harrisburg start fixing them and quit worrying about Where the users by their booze.

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WillAcker

May-19-13 4:56 AM

The CDC pages on ARDI (Alcohol Related Death Rate) shows PA is higher then NY, NJ, and MD so while there may be one particular statistic PA does well on overall the state is below the US average. Look up Alcohol-Related Disease Impact (ARDI) and see for yourself.

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JohnRz

May-18-13 8:27 AM

More offensive is the authors use of the MADD study. He claims that MADD ranks Pa 35th in Drunken driving. But the study cited has nothing to do with DUI and everything to do with how much is spent on enforcement and the severity of penalties. Don't take my word for it. Google "MADD rating the states".

MADD OPPOSES LIQUOR PRIVATIZATION IN PA!

Sorry if I have embarrassed the writer. I do agree on one point. When you're so desperate you resort to half truths and outright lies you are probably on the wrong side of the issue and you are. Again, don't take my word for it Google the latest Franklin and Marshall poll. The poll have trended more against privatization as the public has learned more about the issue. Some people seem to have missed class. Maybe they were playing hooky at the bar?

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JohnRz

May-18-13 8:12 AM

Wow! This article is a blatant attempt to spread misinformation. Twisting the CDC And MADD reports so big box stores can steal a public asset is reprehensible. First the CDC says Pa has the lowest rate of death directly attributed to alcohol use in the country! Yep, we are #1. We do have DUI and some result in death but as any police officer will tell you most DUI offenders aren't caught until they have an accident. Pa has a high rate of both fatal and non-fatal accidents do to the fact that we have miles and miles of rural two lane highways. Fact is Pa is near the top of the list when it comes to head on collisions. The author fails to mention the CDC recommends against privatization.

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MrShaman

May-16-13 12:25 PM

"When the big government apologists get desperate to protect a fiefdom, they roll out the scare card."

*

...And, what BETTER example than those phantom "WMDs"?

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