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Euthanasia

June 9, 2013

Vermont recently became the fourth state to authorize doctor assisted suicide. Most disturbing is the number of commentators that favor such action....

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mikekerstetter

Jun-11-13 3:39 AM

spike2-"sorry kerstetter, you are rather interchangeable"

Yeah, as are you, Sham, Chuck and Chayes.

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spike2

Jun-10-13 4:23 PM

rmiller - sent.

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spike2

Jun-10-13 3:34 PM

sorry kerstetter, you are rather interchangeable

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rmiller

Jun-10-13 3:17 PM

Spike,

I do understand that death is a private matter and a personal choice, if we have one in the end means of the how to cope. I'm strictly keeping focused on my situation with my sister and realize every person has that right to determine that choice. I've seen the sovereign hand of God at many different levels in my life, that because I firmly believe He created us, I would take the position of Him taking my life when He desires. As a woman, however, I would probably make the same decision your Mom made. In fact, I know I would...I've had this discussion with my husband numerous times. I applaud your Mom's courage. It must have been hard on you.

Spike....my email is r a e a a s o n @ c o m c a s t dot net. Look forward to hearing from you!

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rmiller

Jun-10-13 3:03 PM

Sham/John,

Can you please stay on topic on such a sensitive matter? Your bringing in the National Health Care Act at this juncture in the conversation is not germane to those who are sharing pain. Regardless of where one stands on this issue, we are not discussing this at this time...stay tuned to sensitivity 101.

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mikekerstetter

Jun-10-13 1:14 PM

spike2-"As to you Kerstetter - I am sorry for your loss as with most of us. I feel your comment re: love and so forth was inappropriate given U.S.A.'s post. Pain and love are apples and oranges. I'm sure our presence is comforting but does not reduce neural response to severe pain."

Again, a little reading comprehension goes a long way. That was Richardson who posted the 'love' post, not me.

"richardson Jun-09-13 4:59 AM

USA: Just a rhetorical question: Would your ability to cope to this point have been more, or less, without the the love and care with which you have been blessed?"

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spike2

Jun-10-13 11:21 AM

rmiller - even tough we differ in opinions from time to time, I think we should be "friends". (hint hint) Let me know if you get my request.

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spike2

Jun-10-13 8:16 AM

rmiller - my mother was an R.N.. She developed a rare cancer. She chose a radiation implant. Mom went into remission. The cancer returned and metastasized. There was no brain involvement. She decided there would not be a second round of chemo and frankly it would not have worked after the cancer spread to her organs. She already had a Medical Directive and contact with hospice of her own volition. She worked in a very specialized area of nursing and she made a choice based on her own medical experience as to end of life treatment. Mom attended church regularly but believed strongly in end of life choices by the individual or family. As to you Kerstetter - I am sorry for your loss as with most of us. I feel your comment re: love and so forth was inappropriate given U.S.A.'s post. Pain and love are apples and oranges. I'm sure our presence is comforting but does not reduce neural response to severe pain.

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MrShaman

Jun-10-13 6:50 AM

"Death Panels= Kathleen Sibelous- When asked to temporarily drop the 11 year and under rule for children getting lung transplants, she said,"Some people live, some people die". Welcome to ObamaCare!" - JohnZook

*

"Bush, remember, has gloated about the death penalty in more than just the presidential debates. He is the same Bush who last year ridiculed death row inmate Karla Faye Tucker, whining in mock exaggeration in an interview that Tucker begged, "Please don't kill me."

See:

Bush's Death Factory - Common Dreams

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MrShaman

Jun-10-13 6:44 AM

"Actually we’ve always had the choice, but some would take it away from us and restrict or deny any professional assistance." - philunderwood

*

...More-commonly-referred-to, as, the "faith-based" mob.

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MrShaman

Jun-10-13 6:33 AM

"If insurance companies had to compete in a free market, you’d be nuts to buy one that limited care as they and government do now." - philunderwood

*

That's what Porky Limbaugh says, huh??

Insurance companies don't WANT to compete with Medicare!!!!!

*

See:

BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Wendell Potter | PBS (YouTube)

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rmiller

Jun-09-13 11:00 PM

but those same persons won't give the dying person the same rights they would permit for an individual to take the life of a tiny child. All I know is having literally been there and done it....I'm glad that my mother had more wisdom, even during a time of grieving, than I ever could have. It is a tough call and a personal choice. Again, we chose life and then let God...and He did...He took her home when He was ready, not according to our threshold of coping."

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rmiller

Jun-09-13 10:55 PM

to keep one comfortable. He has allowed modern technology that aids in life support for a reason and its not our decision to make as to when to terminate another person's life. You often hear people say, "The person will be much better off, or...he/she would have wanted this." Indeed, some of those persons may not be conscious or they may have dementia, but the brain in still a mystery to science, and we cannot be certain what the individual truly wants. You are going to bring up the living will issue at this juncture. If someone has that and that is their decision, in most cases it's the law and that's the end of the story. I'm sharing in hopes that if any of you would ever face this situation, you must know that God is ultimately the giver and taker of life, period. If you don't believe in God, it's still not you life to take. I find it interesting that many will scream and rail about a woman's right to do with her body as she wants as per abortion, cont.

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rmiller

Jun-09-13 10:46 PM

but the toll of the disease was weakening the heart. I called my mother and pleaded with her to "have the machine turned off." It seemed like the right thing to do. But, my mother (who had power of attorney at the time of my sister's illness) told me, "Relene, I will not let you have the machine turned off, God is not thwarted by a man made machine and I don't want you to live with the decision." At the time, I was weary and my feelings about this were all over the wall. So, I took her advice, we left all life support on and waited the next few days out. My baby sister, at age 36, died in my arms. To this day, I am so at peace and content that my mother didn't allow the machine to be turned off by me. I would have always wondered...what if....

My mom was right, God's plans were not thwarted by a life support, He took her when He was ready. I am free inside of any guilt I might have had. Mike is correct that God has given wisdom to Doctors to administer

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rmiller

Jun-09-13 10:38 PM

I'd like to share this story, all politics aside. My sister who was the baby of three girls found herself in withering pain after she had a minor laparoscopic procedure at Boston, Mass. Long story short, she got peritonitis and was eight weeks on life support and a host of innumerable drugs for both pain and paralytic, along with morphine, etc. When she got the lap, she also got her bowel nicked in the process. We watched as six tubes were placed in her lungs (one at a time over a course of eight weeks)to keep them from collapsing (in the event she would survive the 98% mortality disease. Towards the last two weeks, an EEG was done and she reportedly had low brain activity. My Mom was falling apart and rather than see her die also, I suggested she go home to PA. I told her I would stay with my sister. Simply put, she couldn't watch her child die. As the last couple of days drew to a close, my sister's heart was strong and it was beating on its own, cont.

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DavidBross

Jun-09-13 9:05 PM

I think it is actually a good sign that this issue is coming out from the shadows to be faced openly. The idea of not extending one's life has always been with us. Sometimes the it can be as subtle as saying, "Let, Grandpa eat what he wants. Let him enjoy what time he has left." Quality versus quantity is a reasonable choice that we all should have a right to decide. There may well be reasonable limitations and consequences (for example, a life insurance benefit maybe denied) associated with it, but it should be allowed.

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DavidBross

Jun-09-13 9:05 PM

I think it is actually a good sign that this issue is coming out from the shadows to be faced openly. The idea of not extending one's life has always been with us. Sometimes the it can be as subtle as saying, "Let, Grandpa eat what he wants. Let him enjoy what time he has left." Quality versus quantity is a reasonable choice that we all should have a right to decide. There may well be reasonable limitations and consequences (for example, a life insurance benefit maybe denied) associated with it, but it should be allowed.

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philunderwood

Jun-09-13 6:51 PM

I knew a Dr. back in the late fifties who was found dead in his car at a spot overlooking the Pacific. He’d overdosed on morphine after being diagnosed with inoperable cancer. He wasn’t willing to suffer like he’d seen others do.

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mikekerstetter

Jun-09-13 4:13 PM

CHayes-"Worst case scenario is this is for someone in the early stages of an incredibly debilitating, torturous disease like Alzheimers or worse, for which there is no effective treatment, and nothing on the horizon."

Chris, I honestly don't know what I feel about diseases like Alzheimer's, dementia, parkinson's, etc.

I have a reservations about ending a life before God says it's time. I believe that he gave us medications to reduce our suffering, but I don't know that he did it to end our life early. And I do understand the argument that we are prolonging a life through modern medicine past what we would normally live. It's a conflicting issue for me.

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mikekerstetter

Jun-09-13 3:59 PM

CHayes-"Mike, I ask you to consider the first two words of the phrase "physician assisted suicide". What doctor would have an otherwise healthy patient come into his office, and say "I'm feeling a little down this week because I'm behind on my bills. How about some cyanide?" , and so he reaches for his prescription pad?"

How many Dr Gosnell's do we have out there?

Seriously, though, you do have a point. I would hope that no Dr. would do it in the scenario in which you provided.

The other question is at what point is a disease 'terminal'? Say someone is told you have cancer there is nothing we can so for it but treat the symptoms and control the pain, you will probably live 2 years, but you quality of life will begin to suffer in about 18 months.

Does that PAS allow for the Dr to end the patients life now, or when the disease diminishes their quality of life?

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CHayes

Jun-09-13 3:24 PM

" When asked to temporarily drop the 11 year and under rule for children getting lung transplants"

And furthermore John, that simply isn't true. The girl had been on the PEDIATRIC organ list for 18 months, but her family also wanted to add her to the list for ADULT organs. The chance of successfully transplanting adult lungs into a 10 year old, is almost certainly much slimmer than transplanting them in an adult, which was why she was at the bottom of the list.

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CHayes

Jun-09-13 3:11 PM

" I just don't want to see depression and mental health issues to cause an otherwise healthy person (not terminally ill) to end their life"

Mike, I ask you to consider the first two words of the phrase "physician assisted suicide". What doctor would have an otherwise healthy patient come into his office, and say "I'm feeling a little down this week because I'm behind on my bills. How about some cyanide?" , and so he reaches for his prescription pad?

That isn't what this is about at all. This is for patients in hospice, or heading to hospice. Worst case scenario is this is for someone in the early stages of an incredibly debilitating, torturous disease like Alzheimers or worse, for which there is no effective treatment, and nothing on the horizon.

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JohnZook

Jun-09-13 1:39 PM

Death Panels= Kathleen Sibelous- When asked to temporarily drop the 11 year and under rule for children getting lung transplants, she said,"Some people live, some people die". Welcome to ObamaCare!

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CMReeder

Jun-09-13 12:11 PM

Here we go again!

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mikekerstetter

Jun-09-13 11:16 AM

spike2-"Probably because you have no personal, direct experience. Don't question U.S.A.. Listen to what he/she is saying. This is a first-hand experience, not an assumption nor someone from the outside looking in."

You're getting about as annoying as Chuck. Nowhere did I question USA on the subject. All I did was offer my own personal experience and opinion on the subject of the letter. If you notice, if I am replying to someone's comment I quote them along with their screen name, just like I did in this post. I didn't do that with my original post to this thread. A little reading comprehension goes a long way.

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