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Right or wrong

June 29, 2013

The recent revelations from Mr. Snowden about our government and data mining has sent people in this country in a tizzy. Some think he is a hero while others have called him a traitor, either way M....

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-01-13 4:41 PM

From what I read on Wikipedia this guy was corrupt.

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CHayes

Jun-30-13 5:46 PM

Really erik? Can they encrypt/decrypt sensitive data with a thumb drive, or can you email from them?

Then I guess you now know why your hero, the traitor is carrying 4 laptops.

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eriklatranyi

Jun-30-13 12:51 PM

There are 1 TB thumb drives out. They are fairly new.

500GB are plentiful and relatively cheap. Easier to carry a dozen of these than four laptops.

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GysgtUSMC

Jun-30-13 7:33 AM

Bobbie: Ask ex congressman Curt Weldon about that.

Touché. But let's not use broad strokes by comparing that dirtbag to the whole of Congress. There are 1 or 2 good congressional leaders out there. LoL Oh and btw, it's GySgt or Gunny, leave Sarg for the Army. LoL

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JerryfromRI

Jun-30-13 7:08 AM

I wonder what Bobbie and I can come to agreement on?

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JerryfromRI

Jun-30-13 7:07 AM

Thanks rmiller. =)

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rmiller

Jun-29-13 11:08 PM

You go Jerry!

See....we do concur on several points. :)

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 10:18 PM

"I'm just not convinced that he was able to get the cache of information that you are describing and by the way the Obama Administration and Justice Department are responding, they don't seem to concerned either."

How exactly are they supposed to act? Like it's the end of the world? Why would you possibly alert America's enemies around the globe that our country is vulnerable?

You were in the military. I'm certain they didn't teach you to telegraph your weakness to your enemy. Same thing applies here.

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 10:14 PM

I mean all due respect Gunny, but he didn't buy the classified information he leaked, on the mean streets of Honolulu. He stole that data from the computer in his office inside an NSA facility. He did in fact have access to classified information at work, and from the looks of things, pretty heavy weight classified info. I'm thinking the level of classification on a court order from the FISA court is pretty high.

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 10:11 PM

"CHayes what you have to remember is that he got this information while working at Booz Allen, a government contractor. These companies do not have broad access to classified material"

Yes, but he was working for Booz Allen, INSIDE an NSA facility where he was a systems administrator. The fact the he stole classified material, is really a pretty clear indication that he had access to classified information.

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GysgtUSMC

Jun-29-13 10:00 PM

I guess we will have to wait and see how this all pans out. I just wanted to explain that it's not like he was Tim McGee on NCIS. It doesn't work that way in real life.

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GysgtUSMC

Jun-29-13 9:48 PM

CHayes what you have to remember is that he got this information while working at Booz Allen, a government contractor. These companies do not have broad access to classified material. They only have access to the material pertinent to the contract that has been awarded to them. I guess you have to had worked within the system to be able to grasp what I'm trying to say. I was in fact a government contractor and we handled classified information for a couple of our programs but were limited to just that information and you just can't log on to a central database that holds all this classified material. I'm just not convinced that he was able to get the cache of information that you are describing and by the way the Obama Administration and Justice Department are responding, they don't seem to concerned either.

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JerryfromRI

Jun-29-13 9:42 PM

I just want to jump up and down and scream NO! NO! NO!

When I write an email to my mother it is none of the government's da*n business that I have done so, where in the world I was when I clicked send, and what I had to say, P-E-R-I-O-D.

It should take more than 19 men with box cutters to undue the Constitutional protections of due process of 300 million people.

Stand up and say NO while you still can!

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 9:19 PM

" Just the story of him carrying around four laptops makes me start to question. It's much more believable that he may have had one laptop or some data sticks."

What if he has 4 or 5 terabytes of data? They dont really make thumb drives that big. He also stole this data bit by bit from work on thumb drives, and may have figured it was better to dump the data on laptops and encrypt it. You can't do that with a thumb drive. It's probably fair to assume that he emailed some of this data, and you can't do that with a thumb drive.

The reason he may have used 4 laptops is that he may have had more data than he could fit on 3 laptops. Laptop drives are necessarily limited by size constraints, and its also fair to assume a systems administrator would be running solid state drives which further limits capacity.

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 9:12 PM

" . Yes, what Snowden did was criminal but to make blanket statements that he is costing American lives is factually baseless, especially when none of us know exactly what was taken."

Think about that statement a minute Gunny. We know he leaked all the info about the PRISM program, and we also know he leaked a heat map of the world showing all the countries that the NSA intercepts the most and least communications from. That latter item sounds like it could be used by people as the basis of a roadmap on how to conceal your communications from the NSA.

You said you handled classified data during part of your career. Why would you say information is classified? I'd say to protect American interests, and national security.

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 9:06 PM

" The fact that there are some in our gov't who think throwing a wide net and then sifting for dirt is OK, is very disturbing."

The program actually works in the reverse direction than you assume. It actually starts with "dirt" (in this case known terrorists), and works backwards to establish connections between them, and other suspected terrorists. It's like a giant, very intricate Venn diagram.

And Gysgt, if its true that terrorists are changing their methods of communication since the release of the details of this program, and its also true that the program has stopped terrorist attacks as the Republican Chair of the House Intelligence Committee has said, then it isn't really a stretch to say reducing the effectiveness of a program that saves American lives, will cost American lives. This we pretty much know.

Snowden may or may not have allowed other sensitive information to fall into the wrong hands that could cost more US lives, but that is just supposit

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eriklatranyi

Jun-29-13 4:51 PM

CHayes:

If this program was limited to just terrorists or suspected terrorists, there would be less uproar.

The fact that there are some in our gov't who think throwing a wide net and then sifting for dirt is OK, is very disturbing.

Yes, many Republicans are part of this.

You can put your blind faith that these programs will not be abused, but I do not share that faith.

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GysgtUSMC

Jun-29-13 4:48 PM

CHayes to say that the data Snowden released will cost lives is totally unfounded. You seem to think that he had carte blanche to all top secret material and that's just not how the system works. And like the drug cartels a lot of these terrorist's have been well aware that they are being monitored long ago so they also have counter surveillance methods in place, like throw away phones. Yes, what Snowden did was criminal but to make blanket statements that he is costing American lives is factually baseless, especially when none of us know exactly what was taken. Just the story of him carrying around four laptops makes me start to question. It's much more believable that he may have had one laptop or some data sticks. Instill believe he was strictly after this surveillance program and he got a job to get access to it and once he had the data he wanted to be a hero and go to the press. Period. His boasting about all this other data is probably just that to make himself look like a threa

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 4:31 PM

" Seriously....you're too-YOUNG to remember Daniel Ellsberg?????

Sure, and he got away with it too!!!!"

The difference being that the information Ellsburg released SAVED lives, the information Snowden released will COST lives.

As I pointed out earlier, there are already rumblings that terrorists that had been under surveillance, are changing their methods of communication to avoid detection since the disclosure.

How far gone are elements of both the left and the right, to lionize a sniveling coward who made our EVERYONE in our country less safe.

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 4:25 PM

" Since he wasn't actually in CHINA but HONG KONG"

Hong Kong is a semi autonomous region of China. That's like saying someone wasn't in the United States, they were in Pennsylvania. You know what's another "semi autonomous region of China"? Tibet.

You can be sure that Chinese intelligence simply would never have a station, or engage in any type of activities in Hong Kong, right USA?

So say you wanted to get a visa to visit Hong Kong, what embassy or diplomatic mission would you apply to?

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USABorn

Jun-29-13 3:40 PM

MrShaman - 2:44 PM

Seriously....you're too-YOUNG to remember Daniel Ellsberg?????

Sure, and he got away with it too!!!!

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CHayes

Jun-29-13 3:35 PM

" Actually in your own words, we don't know what Snowden exposed."

Sorry Gysgt, but we know exactly what he exposed. What we don't know is why, or what other documents he stole.

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USABorn

Jun-29-13 3:27 PM

CHayes - 10:19 AM

"Here's what I'd like to know. What did Snowden have to give the Chinese to get them to let him go?"

Since he wasn't actually in CHINA but HONG KONG, which is considerably different, he most likely didn't have to give them anything to get away."

I too had secret, top secret, NATO, CETO and CINTO clearances. Would not think of EVER divulging anything I saw in, or learned from, these douments.

Those commenting that they had clearances are probably familiar with this little saying we were reminded of daily:

WHAT YOU SEE, WHAT YOU HEAR, WHEN YOU LEAVE, LEAVE IT HERE.

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philunderwood

Jun-29-13 2:54 PM

It’s not possible for any of us to do more than speculate since we don’t have the necessary facts to make a decision and the issue is sure to be politicized.

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GysgtUSMC

Jun-29-13 2:53 PM

CHayes: Also, nothing Snowden exposed was illegal.

Actually in your own words, we don't know what Snowden exposed.

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