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Freedom

July 5, 2013

Man has proven time and time again that he is unable to rule himsel....

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(95)

USABorn

Jul-05-13 4:13 AM

Excellent letter Mr. Weigle.

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gavinf56

Jul-05-13 5:26 AM

"....there have always been Men infected with a need for authority over others." - Gregory Weigle

...and throughout history, including our history here in the US, men have used that book to exude authority over others and they continue to try and do so today.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-05-13 5:59 AM

gavinf56-"...and throughout history, including our history here in the US, men have used that book to exude authority over others..."

Actually they used their own interpretation of the book to support their evil views. There's a difference.

gavinf56-"and they continue to try and do so today."

In the USA? Any examples?

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gavinf56

Jul-05-13 6:03 AM

"Actually they used their own interpretation of the book to support their evil views. There's a difference." - mikekerstetter

Not really Mike, just look at the actions of the Vatican throughout European history. It's all about control.

"In the USA? Any examples?" - mikekerstetter

That one is easy, abortion and gay marriage for starters.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-05-13 6:04 AM

Gregory Weigle-"I believe that one day there will be refugees from the United States for political and religious reasons if "their" vision of the U.S. is not reversed. God help us."

I believe that is true. One day in the not so distant future a church pastor will be charged with a hate crime if he affirms that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. Maybe not in my lifetime, but certainly in my children's lifetime. The writing is already on the wall.

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MrShaman

Jul-05-13 6:24 AM

"If government is your god, this letter is meaningless." - Gregory Weigle

*

...And, if god is your government, you're more-confused than most (other) people.

*

See:

Biblical Contradictions

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mikekerstetter

Jul-05-13 6:26 AM

Gavin, the Vatican, and the Roman Catholic Church are a whole different ball game. I believe their doctrinal foundation is wrong. I believe that a person can be saved through the Catholic Church, despite of their doctrine and beliefs, not because of it.

It's interesting that you bring up abortion. Both sides of that argument is about rights. One side claims the rights of the mother take precedence and the other side says the rights of the unborn child takes precedence. I believe that abortion is murder and murder is not only against our Moral Law, it is wrong according to God. That's not using religion to suppress someone, as much as the pro-choice people would like to believe it is.

And gay marriage is not about suppressing anyone. It's about preserving the sanctity and tradition of marriage. There exists ways to allow same sex couples to enjoy the legislated benefits of marriage without it being called a marriage. The truth is that they want sameness.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-05-13 6:28 AM

Cont'd...The truth is they want sameness. They will never have sameness because natural law dictates otherwise.

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MrShaman

Jul-05-13 6:30 AM

"In the USA? Any examples?" - mikekerstetter

That one is easy, abortion and gay marriage for starters." - gavinf56

*

...And, all those other "traditional values".

*

See:

Sexism in the Torah

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MrShaman

Jul-05-13 6:36 AM

mikekerstetter Jul-05-13 6:04 AM Agree | Disagree

Gregory Weigle-"I believe that one day there will be refugees from the United States for political and religious reasons if "their" vision of the U.S. is not reversed. God help us."

I believe that is true. One day in the not so distant future a church pastor will be charged with a hate crime if he affirms that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. Maybe not in my lifetime, but certainly in my children's lifetime. The writing is already on the wall." - mikekerstetter

*

...IF you believe in such "magical"-events as "writings", on walls, and talking-snakes (not to mention those legendary "zombie"-events).

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MrShaman

Jul-05-13 6:39 AM

"Gavin, the Vatican, and the Roman Catholic Church are a whole different ball game. I believe their doctrinal foundation is wrong. I believe that a person can be saved through the Catholic Church, despite of their doctrine and beliefs, not because of it." - mikekerstetter

*

...And, those beliefs are perfectly-acceptable...as-long-as you keep them to YOURSELF.

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CMReeder

Jul-05-13 6:41 AM

Now the Christian right is trying to rule over this country.

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CHayes

Jul-05-13 7:07 AM

"Drones, wire taps without warrant, speech monitored"

A greater example of a precise 180 degree flip flop has never existed, to my knowledge in the history of the Sun Gazette. These are ALL things that just a few years ago the letter writer supported. And as for the "wire taps without warrant" there are none now on American citizens, though there WERE warrantless wiretaps on Americans when Weigle supported them.

Amazing.

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notsopoliticallycorrect

Jul-05-13 7:10 AM

...And, those beliefs are perfectly-acceptable...as-long-as you keep them to YOURSELF.-MrShaman

So this knucklehead thinks free speech is only for clowns like himself. What a buffoon.

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CHayes

Jul-05-13 7:12 AM

"targeting citizens for supporting political office challengers"

That has proven to be another debunked right wing persecution fantasy. In typical right wing style, Weigle stops listening to the news when the facts suit his persecution fantasy. Troublingly common around here these days. But of course when your only sources of information are extreme right websites, chain email, and Fox "News" which acts as the propaganda arm of the Republican Party, what can you expect.

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CHayes

Jul-05-13 7:26 AM

"I believe that one day there will be refugees from the United States for political and religious reasons if "their" vision of the U.S. is not reversed. God help us."

OMG!

The problem is Weigle, you don't want a country where your religious freedoms are guaranteed by the govt like in the US, you want a country where your religion is SPONSORED by the govt, like Iran. You want a license to persecute the competition as it were, and that will NEVER happen in the US.

To a modern "christian" conservative, they don't have true "religious freedom" unless they can force everyone else to snap to their line with all the blessings, financial, and legal support of the govt.

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gavinf56

Jul-05-13 7:36 AM

"Gavin, the Vatican, and the Roman Catholic Church are a whole different ball game. I believe their doctrinal foundation is wrong." - mikekerstetter

Mike, they ARE the doctrinal foundation. It wasn't until Martin Luther in the 1500's did that change.

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gavinf56

Jul-05-13 7:43 AM

Well Chris, it looks like you and I are in agreement today, especially your 7:26 post.

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CitizenX

Jul-05-13 7:49 AM

As usual, Greg, a well-though out, informed, and sane observation. 'Tis sad the decline we've seen in this country in our lifetime isn't it?

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CHayes

Jul-05-13 8:29 AM

"Actually they used their own interpretation of the book to support their evil views. There's a difference." - mikekerstetter

If you look at this statement, it's really incredible. What the implication is, is that two sets of people look at the EXACT same set of words, one of them has an "interpretation" that is "evil", apparently because they don't understand it like the other one.

Amazing example of a black and white mindset blinding someone.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-05-13 8:30 AM

gavinf56-"Mike, they ARE the doctrinal foundation. It wasn't until Martin Luther in the 1500's did that change."

We'll have to agree to disagree.

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CMReeder

Jul-05-13 8:54 AM

This is so well written I have to post it again;

"To a modern "christian" conservative, they don't have true "religious freedom" unless they can force everyone else to snap to their line with all the blessings, financial, and legal support of the govt."

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JohnZook

Jul-05-13 9:37 AM

Did any of you Libs actually read and reflect on the gist of the letter, instead of looking at how to demean it? Did you address how fallible we are to rule ourselves? No, you only criticize and misdirect the conversation. Sham- I'm sorry, I can no longer read your posts. You are free not to read mine.

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gavinf56

Jul-05-13 9:45 AM

Yep, I read it. That is why I posted what I did. If you want to live by your interpretation of "God's rules", you are free to do so, but understand that I am under no such obligation.

The Puritans are a prime example in this countries history of governing by a sects interpretation of the "good book".

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WKnapp

Jul-05-13 10:25 AM

CMReeder

Jul-05-13 8:54 AM

This is so well written I have to post it again;

"To a modern "christian" conservative, they don't have true "religious freedom" unless they can force everyone else to snap to their line with all the blessings, financial, and legal support of the govt."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Did anybody here expect less from this pompous buffoon? You're a caricature of a human being! No Christian is into forcing anybody to do anything! Our God doesn't force anybody to accept Him, why should His followers? He wants our obedience and love.

8 Agrees | 7 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

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