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Values matter

July 8, 2013

There are many of our laws that are intended to control or influence an individual’s behavior. Laws ought to punish infringements upon other’s rights, not attempt to influence behavior....

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(153)

mikekerstetter

Jul-08-13 4:25 AM

Laws have always been used to legislate moral behavior. Every law made is to influence someone to be moral.

So the question really becomes whose morality do we use? Yours, mine, or ours.

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Tgrammiex4

Jul-08-13 5:01 AM

Moral behavior used to be taught by parents , teachers and church.It doesn't say much for our society that all these laws are needed to enforce what apparently isn't being taught anymore.

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gavinf56

Jul-08-13 6:00 AM

Laws that punish infringement upon another's right would be murder and property theft.

Laws that are intended to influence an individuals behavior would be like those limiting the size of a soda one may buy or the outlawing of marijuana.

Good luck with this one Phil, as I think there may be some confusion between infringing upon another's right and legislating behavior modification.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-08-13 6:04 AM

Tgrammie I agree and in my opinion this country is becoming more and more morally bankrupt. You need to look no further than your television. Many justify these changes, stating it's the 21st century and times are changing. So what some once felt was morally wrong or unacceptable, now they must accept it and laws were enacted or abolished to allow these changes. And no this does not include the race issue because that should never have been a question of morals. But two hot issues that come to mind are abortion and gay marriage.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jul-08-13 6:30 AM

As we continue to increase the number of people on the planet, there is an increasing impact of consequences of one individual's freedoms upon those around them. And sometimes those impacts are not readily apparent. For instance, someone may consume large volumes of alcohol or marijuana and not be in a car accident with another; however, it may reduce their productivity in society which could cause children to suffer in some form or fashion. Some laws also protect the individual themselves.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jul-08-13 6:36 AM

If everyone practiced the golden rule, " Do unto orders as you would want them to do unto you." or "Love your neighbor as yourself.", you could have a society with no written laws. Unfortunately, that is not the case since many operate under the "me first" or "go for the gusto" mentality.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-08-13 6:51 AM

To me it's the diminishing respect that people have for each other. I spent four years in Japan and what struck me the most is the amount of respect they show to each other. And this respect reflects in their crime statistics. I'm sure many have seen this from watching the little league world series. As Tgrammie stated, if a lot of parents would get back to teaching respect of others, personal responsibility and discipline, we wouldn't need big brother legislating morality.

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eriklatranyi

Jul-08-13 6:53 AM

In the past, communities set morality by acceptance.

An unwed woman who got pregnant was either married quickly to cover the deed or looked down upon by the community as having low moral character.

Today, we are told to never judge a single woman who is pregnant. We are told to embrace this new idea of a family, this bold step for women everywhere.

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CMReeder

Jul-08-13 7:07 AM

This has to be one of Phil's stupidest letters yet.

The best way society can effectively change behavior is through it's rules of acceptable behavior. Rules are just another word for laws. They also set up rules/laws that punish unacceptable behavior.

The ironic part is that the complainers about laws that change moral behavior in fact do pass laws that change moral behavior.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-08-13 7:21 AM

Mr. Reeder what is considered acceptable behavior is constantly changing, and in my opinion not for the better. Heck I can remember when I was a kid Jane Russell couldn't even unbutton her shirt in the 18hour bra commercials. LoL How times have changed! That may be a silly example but in my opinion acceptable behavior in this country is going in the wrong direction. And my opinion stems from the values and respect I was taught growing up.

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richardson

Jul-08-13 7:42 AM

"The best way society can effectively change behavior is through it's rules of acceptable behavior". Reeder. If my behavior displeases you, but does not effect you, then leave me the h alone!

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CMReeder

Jul-08-13 7:49 AM

Reason Jane Russell could not was because the 'moralist' became upset over the films Hoollywood was producing with stars like Mae West, it is called censorship. These 'moralists' even had government set standards of behavior in film. Film is a reflection, fantasy, entertainment.

Society uses laws to change behavior, to define what is acceptable and unacceptable. In other words they define morals of the society.

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CMReeder

Jul-08-13 7:50 AM

How do you know it doesn't affect me or someone else? That is why society has laws.

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CMReeder

Jul-08-13 7:53 AM

It is funny Mr. Richardson how many times you have written how others behavior displeases you and you want laws against them.

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enigma

Jul-08-13 7:59 AM

Phil,"If we wish to make changes in people's behavior, we must change their values, not pass more laws."

Sometimes Phil just doesn't get it. He makes two huge blunders with this one simple sentence. First, it is not the government's place to change the values of people. The government should reflect the values of the people not form them. Second, that is exactly what they are trying to do, by passing laws. Unlike Phil, they understand that the majority of the sheeple will accept law as the definition of right and wrong or in his word, values. But, what can you expect from Phil, he thinks he's a conservative, but he rejects the very foundations of conservatism.

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richardson

Jul-08-13 8:00 AM

Reeder: Name one.

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MrShaman

Jul-08-13 8:08 AM

"But two hot issues that come to mind are abortion and gay marriage." - GysgtUSMC

*

...And, if you feel it's immoral to participate in either (or, both)...don't.

Problem solved.

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MrShaman

Jul-08-13 8:10 AM

"For instance, someone may consume large volumes of alcohol or marijuana and not be in a car accident with another; however, it may reduce their productivity in society which could cause children to suffer in some form or fashion." - ToTEXASfromPA

*

"..may.." being the operative-word.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-08-13 8:13 AM

Mr. Reeder I am curious about what your definition of a "moralist" is.

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MrShaman

Jul-08-13 8:13 AM

"If everyone practiced the golden rule, " Do unto orders as you would want them to do unto you." or "Love your neighbor as yourself.", you could have a society with no written laws. Unfortunately, that is not the case since many operate under the "me first" or "go for the gusto" mentality." - ToTEXASfromPA

*

...Not-to-mention the "WE know what's morally-proper!" "conservative"-mentality.

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MrShaman

Jul-08-13 8:18 AM

"Today, we are told to never judge a single woman who is pregnant. We are told to embrace this new idea of a family, this bold step for women everywhere." - eriklatranyi

*

No...you're told to MIND-YOUR-OWN-DAMNED-BUSINESS, and allow such a woman to manage her OWN Life.

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CMReeder

Jul-08-13 8:19 AM

A moralist is someone who believes they have morals, a high moral standard. What did you think it meant?

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CMReeder

Jul-08-13 8:21 AM

It is not the laws on behavior that people really object to it is the change in attitude about behavior that they object to. They don't want the laws to reflect that change in attitude.

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MrShaman

Jul-08-13 8:22 AM

"Mr. Reeder what is considered acceptable behavior is constantly changing, and in my opinion not for the better. Heck I can remember when I was a kid Jane Russell couldn't even unbutton her shirt in the 18hour bra commercials. LoL How times have changed! That may be a silly example but in my opinion acceptable behavior in this country is going in the wrong direction. And my opinion stems from the values and respect I was taught growing up." - GysgtUSMC

*

Despite what your Clerics/parents/chain-of-command tell you...EVERYTHING is temporary.

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MrShaman

Jul-08-13 8:27 AM

"A moralist is someone who believes they have morals, a high moral standard. What did you think it meant?" - CMReeder

*

Webster says:

moralist: 1: one who leads a moral life

2: a philosopher or writer concerned with moral principles and problems

3: one concerned with regulating the morals of others

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