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The wrong road

July 20, 2013

Higher education used to be considered the pathway to success. It is becoming a road to a lifetime of indebtedness. Our nation is crippling itself with student loan debt....

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(57)

GysgtUSMC

Jul-21-13 11:24 AM

LoL Mr. Reeder this conversation is going no where. I have almost 3 decades experience working in and with the military but if you feel you can school me in military life and how to succeed, knock yourself out. Oh, I almost forgot to ask, what branch were you in? How long did you serve and what rank were you? Maybe we should get together and trade some old war stories. LoL

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CMReeder

Jul-21-13 9:52 AM

GysgtUSMC you are not as tactful as you think. Officers don't really let their senior enlited men run the show, they let them think they do. The one's who get to advance are the ones willing to get more education.

Officers who graduate form the colleges that are geeared to the military like West Point are tough not academicly but all around. They have produced some outstanding leaders and officers who proved themselves in battle over and over. They do pay their dues on their way up.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-21-13 6:15 AM

And when it comes down to it, it's really the NCO's that keep the military on the move.

USA you are exactly right and most good officers will tell you the same thing.

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Don521

Jul-21-13 6:14 AM

While I agree that college is expensive, the government doubling the interest on college loans does not help either. But, many college students borrow excess monies over what books and tuition amount to. They buy a car, rent an apartment off campus, go on spring break, or join a fraternity or sorority, etc. They are going bare bones and working part time for the extras. I apologize in advance to the ones who are not abusing the system and are working part time. If you do not believe me, just talk to a college loan officer.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-21-13 5:36 AM

radioactive-"Without a degree you won't have those loans, but, are limited in a career."

Well, maybe you won't be a Dr or Pharmacist, but you really aren't limited in career choices if you don't go to college. Lets be honest, there are a lot of people who don't work in their field of study. And for those people their advanced education was a waste of time and money.

I've said for a long time that the collective we are harming our kids, and ourselves, financially by telling our kids they need a college education to succeed. It's just not true.

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USABorn

Jul-21-13 4:34 AM

CMReeder - 8:02 AM

"The military 'forces' education. You want ot get ahead in the military you better have that degree to go with it."

Sure, my daughter went into the A.F. as a (CO) Captain with a DMD degree.

HOWEVER, my high school grad grandson is moving along in the NCO ranks!

And when it comes down to it, it's really the NCO's that keep the military on the move.

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spike2

Jul-20-13 4:08 PM

Richardson - There are certain universities that are well worth the proverbial "million dollar education". Those who rise to post-doctoral levels in science are achieving great advances. This should not be a goal for everyone. If someone is proficient in a field, and exceeds normal abilities for their field, we should scholarship the best and brightest. I believe it does happen at this level, but only in a select handful of schools. I think a real problem is the person known as the student adviser. Not sure of the qualifications for that position but it seems they frequently give bad advice.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-20-13 3:50 PM

Richardson I guess it was the way you expressed that no one forces our youth to get an education. In other words if I was a college graduate sitting on a mountain of debt and someone said to me, "no one forced you to get an education", I think I would be pretty upset after putting in the hard work trying to better myself. The fact is, kids do feel forced to get a degree because a lot of parents and industries make them believe they need one. Like I said, I blame the institutions for the extremely high cost and the government for making it so easy to obtain loans that many will never be able to pay back.

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richardson

Jul-20-13 3:34 PM

Before Shaman/Reeder correct: Sentence, not, sentance.

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richardson

Jul-20-13 3:26 PM

Enigma: Thanks for saying what I was trying to say. I was 53 when I paid my student loans. I retired from a field that the military taught me. I did not push my boys to "education". I am glad that I did not.

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richardson

Jul-20-13 3:16 PM

is less of a contribution to society and industry, which value is inflated. Beneficiaries of "privilege" going into college, I propose, will be "successful." The remainder of we graduates will start our careers as hod carriers or roughnecks and road-hands. Those left will start as hamburger flippers. Hopefully, by the time they're out of college, they will have learned how to write simple sentances and how to add and subtract.

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enigma

Jul-20-13 3:04 PM

Dr. Vosk makes a very good argument for not going to college. With the push for more and more people to go to college, the value of a college education has gone down, while the cost of that education has skyrocketed. At the same time the quality of a college education has plummeted. Dr. Vosk's solution of having government pay for college, will not solve any of these problems and will in fact make them worse. It will also not solve the debt problem, it will just change it from personal debt to public debt. That helps no one and hurts everyone. The only workable solution is for government to get out of the college business altogether. Let the market handle it. College cost will come down, and because fewer people will go to college, jobs for college graduates will be plentiful and people for jobs that don't require college will too. We will no longer 'need' illegal immigrants to fill those positions. Talk about a win, win situation.

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richardson

Jul-20-13 3:00 PM

Back to my assertion that students are not "forced" to seek education beyond high school, to which Gunny disagrees. The decision to go to college is a personal one taken with an understanding that the investment of the most productive years of one's life will profit over his/her time sacrifice and accumulated debt. But: Woe is me. We are realizing more and more that the inflated promise has less and less value. That the product of our universities

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ladydawg4

Jul-20-13 1:17 PM

People don't know or realize the horrors of student debt unless they have some. I graduated college with over $50K in student debt and a bachelors in Education. I pay my monthly payments but can't afford extra unless I want to continue living with my parents at 27 and eating raman noodles and mac and cheese for life. I have low interest rates on my student loans and still have to scrape by. I couldnt' imagine people graduated with 7-10% interest rate. Student debt is THE HARDEST debt to get out of and most student loans agencies will not help you with payment plans or lower your interest rates with better credit.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-20-13 10:38 AM

Mr. Reeder if you ever get the chance, watch the movie Heartbreak Ridge and you will get an idea what I'm talking about LoL

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MrShaman

Jul-20-13 10:18 AM

"A coalition of Senate Democrats and Republicans have reached a tentative deal with President Barack Obama that would roll back a recent spike in interest rates on new federal loans for college students and instead move the loans to a market-based rate.

A senior administration official said Obama supports compromise legislation that would hold down interest rates and was involved in the Senate negotiations.

It is not clear whether the House of Representatives would move swiftly to approve an agreement like the one reached by the senators, but it passed a similar one in May."

*

See:

Senators Reach Deal To Move Student Loans To Market Rates

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CMReeder

Jul-20-13 10:14 AM

What makes you think that you know better did not make the situation worse. How much effort did you put in to work with them. Sounds to me both sides gave too much attitude and not enough effort.

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CMReeder

Jul-20-13 10:09 AM

GysgtUSMC, I did not say you were not successful I said you did not go further with your attitude towards the Lt.

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MrShaman

Jul-20-13 10:04 AM

"The entire education system is riddled with gov't involvement.

That is all you need to know to understand why it is failing." - eriklatranyi

*

I'm guessing most folks would prefer a "few" more details, than the Limbaugh-"logic" you'd (just) demonstrated.

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Premier

Jul-20-13 9:59 AM

Finally considering having that Lobotomy done eh?

Don't worry it will be a quick in and out after they find nothing.

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MrShaman

Jul-20-13 9:58 AM

"But companies today feel they get the cream of the crop with the degree requirement when a degree really isn't necessary." - GysgtUSMC

*

Not necessarily. A LOT o' companies consider ex-military folks the "cream"...seeing-as-how such employees are USED to taking orders, without asking a whole-lotta-questions; a "professional"-manager's DREAM-employee!!

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-13 9:51 AM

MrShaman-"Success is a relative-concept. I think I'd prefer a college-educated surgeon "opening-me-up"."

As would I. There are professions that benefit from and require advanced knowledge and those who want to pursue those careers and invest the time and money will be rewarded for their efforts.

But a manager at Mcdonalds or someone in retail doesn't need a 4 year degree. There are a lot of real world jobs that employers require a college education for that really don't need that education. We're not doing our children a service making them go to college and be in debt for years for most of the real world jobs.

Education debt and the cost of healthcare are two critical factors in our economic decline.

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MrShaman

Jul-20-13 9:42 AM

"The moral of the story is that people don't need a college education to succeed." - mikekerstetter

*

Success is a relative-concept.

I think I'd prefer a college-educated surgeon "opening-me-up".

*

See:

Bill Maher On Elites (YouTube)

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MrShaman

Jul-20-13 9:31 AM

"I believe the student loan crisis will mirror the mortgage crises in the near future." - GysgtUSMC

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You need to TRY paying closer-attention. That effort HAS been settled...cutting the banks OUTTA their middle-man hu$tle.

*

Student Loan Reforms: These new initiatives are funded by ENDING the current subsidies given to financial institutions that make guaranteed federal student loans. Starting July 1, all new loans will be DIRECT LOANS delivered and collected by private companies under performance-based contracts with the Department of Education. According to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, ending these WA$TEFUL $UB$IDIE$ will free up nearly $68 billion for college affordability and deficit reduction over the next 11 years."

See:

Ensuring That Student Loans are Affordable

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-13 9:24 AM

GysgtUSMC-"A degree doesn't give you common sense."

Nor does it give you much needed experience. I agree, there's nothing worse than someone with an education but no experience telling someone with years of experience how to do their job. They don't want to hear that we've tried it their way and it doesn't work for our situation. Been in that situation a few times. Do it their way and watch them squirm when things are messed up and they have to take the heat because you are doing exactly what you were told to do.

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