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Obamacare won’t work

July 20, 2013

I have been a liberal all my life but after long and careful thought it is clear that Obamacare will no longer work because it tends to be Medicare for all....

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(57)

USABorn

Jul-21-13 9:15 PM

eriklatranyi - 11:01 AM

"Liberals already demonstrated that they would have witheld a heart transplant from former VP Cheney based solely on ideology."

It will probably work like it did for DEMOCRAT Gov. Casey. He was diagnosed one day, on transplant list immediately, and was convalescing from his heart/liver transplant 2 days later.

A lot of donors tore up their donor cards after that. But eventually, the government will make it mandatory that everyone with a healthy organ will be be a donor!

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-21-13 11:32 AM

Mike you bring up some very good points, and I don't know what the answer is. I do admit I have a bias against allowing the federal government to run the healthcare of this nation, only because of the governments track record on financial management and the monstrosity it has become.

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CMReeder

Jul-21-13 10:41 AM

Doctors don't make house calls anymore either at all hours of the day and night. Doctors are now connected to a hospital. They are not separate any more. Doctors have become more specialized in their practice. There are a lot of differences from way back when you were a kid.

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CMReeder

Jul-21-13 10:34 AM

"With all the improvements being made to VA healthcare, I'll take that and the drive to Wilkes Barre any day instead of having to deal with what's coming."

A government run system that will be using the improvements that you will find in the ACA also.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-21-13 7:52 AM

GysgtUSMC,

Re the wait, our area has it good. We don't have to hours of waiting prevalent in some areas. Dr Weiner, our family Dr when I was a kid, didn't have appointments. You went in and waited your turn, first come, first served. You could wait for hours and get in one of the exam rooms only to watch him run out the door and head off to Muncy Valley Hospital for an emergency they needed him to take care of.

The taxes argument is an interesting one. If we would consider the elimination of insurance premiums, medicare and medicaid taxes, the costs passed on from those who can't pay, and all of the out of pocket expenses from those of who do pay, would the taxes paid to support a national health care system be comparable to what is currently being spent? Would there be any savings realized from preventative care that would offset the cost of acute care needed by people who don't go to the Dr when they should because they can't afford the bill?

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-20-13 6:49 PM

Mike I spent 4 months in Nova Scotia for work and I ended up injuring my back pretty bad. I went to a place that was like an urgicare clinic and then they sent me to the hospital. I really can't form an opinion with only having to use the system on 4 or 5 visits for my back, but what I will say that the wait times at both the clinic and hospital was extremely long and it was very crowded. The taxes were extremely high too and that's one of the reasons gasoline is so expensive in Canada. I guess it has it's pros and cons but in MHO the level of care was no where near what you receive here. I could go into details but it's not necessary.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-13 5:27 PM

GysgtUSMC-"With all the improvements being made to VA healthcare, I'll take that and the drive to Wilkes Barre any day instead of having to deal with what's coming."

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the ACA. IMHO it didn't really do anything to make it affordable or get more people covered.

TBH, I have great health insurance benefits and have had them through two employers. I just wish everyone could/would have the same benefits. Despite the opposition telling everyone the horror stories from similar countries with a national healthcare system (like there aren't horror stories involving our private health insurance companies), I think we could have a single payer system that is both cost effective AND have top notch care.

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BornHere

Jul-20-13 4:35 PM

Another thing about the VA is if my husband would need urgent care I can take him to any hospital in any State and VA will pay for it even if a specialist has to be called in.

I never knew about these benefits until I started working at the DAV.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-20-13 3:58 PM

With all the improvements being made to VA healthcare, I'll take that and the drive to Wilkes Barre any day instead of having to deal with what's coming.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-13 3:36 PM

eriklatranyi-"The VA system is not superior to private healthcare (as it is now)."

But neither is it inferior to private healthcare, except that one may have to travel quite a distance to get there. But even that, in some areas, is normal in private healthcare. All areas are not blessed with the abundance of hospitals that we are in our area.

Be that as it may, a national healthcare system doesn't mean the demise of private healthcare. Only private insurance companies would be gone, the rest would remain the same.

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eriklatranyi

Jul-20-13 2:48 PM

The VA system is not superior to private healthcare (as it is now).

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-20-13 12:32 PM

Mike I can see why Erik would feel the way he does because until the media brought to light the deplorable conditions at many facilities, the government didn't give the VA healthcare system the funding and attention it needed. And there is still a lot of work to do but they are moving in the right direction.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-13 12:10 PM

GysgtUSMC,

I can't really say one way or another because I'm not a Vet and don't use the service. Your comment is pretty much the same thing I have heard from others that use it: good care but hate the trip to the VA hospital.

Erik disparaged the VA system as a reason to advocate against a National Healthcare System. I'm not seeing the VA as a bad system. Perhaps it may have been, or perhaps it's a case of bad care by a particular caregiver or group, but it seems to me that it is now a decent system. The long drive to get services wouldn't be a problem with a National Healthcare system because we would all choose our providers. Perhaps the VA would be included in a National Healthcare system and then you wouldn't have to travel so far for service. Just a thought.

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BornHere

Jul-20-13 11:49 AM

My husband has always gotten excellent care at the VA Clinic at Divine and in Wilkes-Barre even before he was rated 100%.

He would use the DAV van to go to Wilkes-Barre or I would drive him and they would reimburse me my gas mileage.

Several times his doctors would call to see how he was doing and his meds come right to the house by mail or someone from the clinic would bring them to our house.

I can say that I have never gotten service from my doctor like my husband receives from the VA.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-20-13 11:47 AM

Mike prior to the turn of the century, VA healthcare facilities in many areas were deplorable. Since then massive improvements have been made to the VA healthcare system. Maybe the wars had something to do with that, I don't know. But I am concerned that once the war in Afghanistan ends, that the care available may slip if funding isn't made a priority. Personally I'm happy with my Dr. at the local VA clinic but it is a pain having to travel to Wilkes Barre for everything other than a checkup or lab work. Oh and for those that think this care is free... think again.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-13 11:19 AM

Just to give you a for instance; my wife recently went to the Dr for a cold sore type sore on her lip that was swelling rapidly (she's never had a cold sore in her life). Her Primary care Dr said it was probably an infection and put her on an antibiotic. It took that trip to the Dr and two trips to the ER to finally get the correct diagnosis of staff/mrsa infection and a change of antibiotic to one that would take care of that infection. The primary care Dr prescribed the wrong antibiotic and the first ER Dr told her to stay on that antibiotic. The 3rd Dr put her on the right one.

We have received good care hundreds of other times we have used the Geisinger health care system. That one incident doesn't make whole system bad.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-13 11:08 AM

eriklatranyi-"Since all ideologies agree that veterans deserve to be cared for, why is that system so bad? Now, just imagine what it will be like for the rest of us."

I know several Vets who use the VA and I've not heard one them complain of their care there. The only complaint I've heard is about traveling to Wilkes-Barre to the VA hospital there for some services, but not about the care.

But I suppose it's like anything else. I'm not a fan of Williamsport Hospital but I like Geisinger and Evangelical in Lewisburg. Others don't like Geisinger or Evan. I'm sure there are more than a few that will complain, and perhaps rightly so, about their care from doctors and hospitals in the VA system. But that doesn't mean the whole system is bad.

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eriklatranyi

Jul-20-13 11:01 AM

Liberals already demonstrated that they would have witheld a heart transplant from former VP Cheney based solely on ideology.

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-20-13 11:01 AM

Since all ideologies agree that veterans deserve to be cared for, why is that system so bad?

Now, just imagine what it will be like for the rest of us.

AMEN ERIK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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eriklatranyi

Jul-20-13 10:57 AM

The IRS can slow down Tea Party applications for non=-profit status, just imagine what the HHS will do for organ transplants or specialized care!

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eriklatranyi

Jul-20-13 10:55 AM

Since all ideologies agree that veterans deserve to be cared for, why is that system so bad?

Now, just imagine what it will be like for the rest of us.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-13 9:41 AM

Two aspects of AHA that I like are pre-existing conditions and being able to carry your kids to age 26. Other than that......

I'd like a single payer system.

Set it up like an HMO where everyone pays a deductible (IE $20 to see a primary care physician, $40 for a specialist and $100 for an ER visit, waved if you are admitted). That way those who use it more will have more skin in the game and it will encourage people to use primary care physicians or clinics/urgicare centers rather than the ER for their hangnails.

Pay for the rest through dedicated taxes paid by employers and employees. You could eliminate the medicare tax and the money paid into medicaid.

I really believe this could be done and it would even the playing field for employers.

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GoBB62

Jul-20-13 9:23 AM

It's hilarious watching these ol' 60's hippies go from saying "Don't trust 'THE MAN'" to "We need to trust 'THE MAN'"

LOL!!!

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GysgtUSMC

Jul-20-13 9:23 AM

They want to repeal it period, all of it. - Mr. Reeder

You're exactly right. They want to repeal it and start over with a systematic, common sense approach instead of a hail mary, do all approach.

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CMReeder

Jul-20-13 9:03 AM

Seeing how Eric make things up I wonder how real it will be.

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