Sign In | Create an Account | Welcome, . My Account | Logout | Subscribe | Submit News | Newspaper contacts | All Access E-Edition | Home RSS
 
 
 

Who succeeds more

July 29, 2013

Mr. Reeder asked for an example of where libertarian principles have been successfully applied....

« Back to Article

 
 
sort: oldest | newest

Comments

(54)

VinceKnauff

Jul-29-13 5:43 AM

Liberals aren't interested in higher standards of living for everybody. Liberals and Liberalism has as it's only goal the equality of everyone under it's rule, while (of course) exempting those in leadership positions from having to follow the rules they set forth for their subjects.

Liberalism, in seeking to guarantee equal outcomes, only serves to make everyone equally miserable. Unfairly punishing the more successful in order to reward someone who is less ambitious in the interest of "fairness" discourages ambition.

Liberalism ignores human nature. That's why it always fails at raising standards of living.

15 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CarlHiller

Jul-29-13 5:58 AM

Sorry Phil, but true Liberatarians do not believe in Capitalism - they believe in the free-market. Capitalism and the free-market are NOT the same. There is really no difference between capitalism and socialism/communism. In basic terms capitalism is simply business owning the government, in socialism/communism government owns the business. They are both tyrannical systems. Capitalism is simply another -ism in the same vein as all the other central planning -isms.

4 Agrees | 8 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

ToTEXASfromPA

Jul-29-13 6:04 AM

Answer: Heaven.

4 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

MrShaman

Jul-29-13 6:41 AM

Mr. Reeder asked for an example of where libertarian principles have been successfully applied. Libertarians believe in the rights of individuals and capitalism, the very principals that allowed the U.S. to grow and prosper. The triumph of these principles also financed the growth of the progressive welfare state until the cost of progressivism's central planning and its affect on the free market could no longer sustain it, resulting in debt that will lower the standard of living for generations to come." - Phil Underwood

*

Yeah...sure...it was "central planning" that whacked our economy....

*

See:

Money, Power and Wall Street | FRONTLINE | PBS

2 Agrees | 13 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

DavidBross

Jul-29-13 6:56 AM

"Libertarians believe in the rights of individuals..." More people in our country have basic individual rights (voting, owning property, for example) than at anytime in our country's history. The noble words found in documents like the Declaration and the Preamble to the Constitution, applied to only small segments of our population the farther back you go in our history. Regarding other countries, I think Germany, France, England, Japan, and Canada have many policies that are worth learning from.

2 Agrees | 11 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

DKMDKM

Jul-29-13 7:04 AM

This is something. I am a liberal, but I also lean libertarian. I do not support a massive government, or government supporting the masses. Many of you would benefit from getting to know true liberalism. We do not live in a truly capitalist society. I cannot start a business tomorrow without the blessing of the local government, and their financial backers... the existing local businesses and financiers.

9 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

DKMDKM

Jul-29-13 7:08 AM

My ideas are not limited by a government that punishes creativity, but by a government that stifles and discourages innovation at the lowest level.

6 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CMReeder

Jul-29-13 7:43 AM

Again Phil you did not answer the question. What nation does this, only applying the principle of libetarianism. Since the US is such a socilaist nightmare, so which nation does it better than us? You really do mix up the political ideologies and principles up to make yours look good.

2 Agrees | 14 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CHayes

Jul-29-13 7:54 AM

" I ask Mr. Reeder, or any other progressive, to give us an example of where central planning of collectivism has ever resulted in a higher standard of living than the U. S. experienced under capitalism."

That's a stupid question Phil, in that you are asking people to compare one broad geralization to another. For example I would say the average French family in 2013, has a substantially higher standard of living than the average 18th century southern US slave family, and also certainly higher than the average 19th century Chicago meat packing family as portrayed in Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". I'm also pretty sure that.the average modern Sweedish family is much better off that the average late 19th/early 20th century US coal mining family.

0 Agrees | 13 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CHayes

Jul-29-13 7:59 AM

" Liberalism, in seeking to guarantee equal outcomes"

Nobody, in any country on Earth seeks "equal outcomes" for citizens. No one. That's a moronic comment, that undoubtedly stems from listening to WAY too much talk radio.

People do seek equal opportunity for people, and that's a good thing as long as you aren't an advocate of some sort of caste system.

3 Agrees | 15 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CMReeder

Jul-29-13 8:13 AM

Maybe Phil can answer where an industrial nation doesn't use central planning at the government level.

I don't knbow about you Chris but it is very obvious that members of right especially Phil can differentiate between socialist, liberal, progressive or leftist. They keep interchanging them as though they are one and the same.

2 Agrees | 12 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CMReeder

Jul-29-13 8:15 AM

Sorry that is can not differentiate.

0 Agrees | 9 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

sideliner

Jul-29-13 8:28 AM

David: "I think Germany, France, England, Japan, and Canada have many policies that are worth learning from."

Looking at 2 Disagrees for this post and can't help but think there are so many out there that believe ours system is the alpha and the omega and others should learn from us and not the other way around.

I believe there is much to learn from other nations who have applied policies that worked and those that have not.

We are working with a mixed bag, so to speak, with much of our system applying capitalist principles and much using socialist principles. That is the case with most modern nations and we can all learn from each other.

1 Agrees | 9 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

MrShaman

Jul-29-13 8:28 AM

"I ask Mr. Reeder, or any other progressive, to give us an example of where central planning of collectivism has ever resulted in a higher standard of living than the U. S. experienced under capitalism."

That's a stupid question Phil, in that you are asking people to compare one broad generalization to another." - CHayes

*

You know of some-other-way to reel-in the T-Baggers?

Complexity has a tendency to "freeze-up" their gray-matter.

1 Agrees | 13 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

MrShaman

Jul-29-13 8:35 AM

"I don't knbow about you Chris but it is very obvious that members of right especially Phil can differentiate between socialist, liberal, progressive or leftist. They keep interchanging them as though they are one and the same." - CMReeder

*

Too-often...it seems (proper) English is their second-language.

For what it's worth (T-Baggers)....

See:

Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online

1 Agrees | 12 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

MrShaman

Jul-29-13 8:39 AM

David: "I think Germany, France, England, Japan, and Canada have many policies that are worth learning from."

Looking at 2 Disagrees for this post and can't help but think there are so many out there that believe ours system is the alpha and the omega and others should learn from us and not the other way around." - sideliner

*

For good reason....

*

See:

Lewis Black On America (YouTube)

2 Agrees | 12 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

SteelerFan

Jul-29-13 8:54 AM

As usual, Sham adds nothing except derogatory comments on Tea Party members and their level of intelligence. And Hazy calling others morons and stupid.

I still haven't seen listed a collectivist system that has ever worked.

14 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

sideliner

Jul-29-13 9:01 AM

I'd say that japan does quite well with its collectivism at its root.

1 Agrees | 13 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CMReeder

Jul-29-13 9:23 AM

"I still haven't seen listed a collectivist system that has ever worked."

Here we go the interchange of terms, central planning to collectivists. They can't discuss central planning without saying collectivist and connecting them as the same. They can not discuss liberlism without discussing collectivism and connecting the two.

You changed the terminolgy and have in turn changed the discusssion.

3 Agrees | 11 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CMReeder

Jul-29-13 9:25 AM

Where is Phil's example of a libertarian system?

4 Agrees | 7 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

MrShaman

Jul-29-13 10:00 AM

As usual, Sham adds nothing except derogatory comments on Tea Party members and their level of intelligence.

"I still haven't seen listed a collectivist system that has ever worked." - SteelerFan

*

C'mon...c'mon...even with limited spelling-skills, the T-Baggers should be able to manage...

Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online

2 Agrees | 9 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

philunderwood

Jul-29-13 10:16 AM

A free market can only exist under a Capitalist economic system. At the other extreme is collectivism, which can only exist under a Socialist system. The closest thing the world has seen to a true free market system is the early United States; there are many examples of collectivist societies.

Today’s governments are a mix of Capitalism and Collectivism, which enables crony Capitalism, which everyone hates, but progressives support.

8 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

philunderwood

Jul-29-13 10:21 AM

For those that will, no doubt bring up all of the evils of the early United States, those evils have nothing to do with the economic system, they fall under the social beliefs of the period and are fodder for another discussion.

7 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

sideliner

Jul-29-13 10:37 AM

The social beliefs most definitely influenced the political and economic system development of early US. Certainly slavery, voting rights of non-whites and women influenced the development of policy. The two cannot be totally separated. Just like religion and social beliefs impact the Middle East and their political an economic policies, so does all of that effect the evolution or our own systems. Those systems do not live in a vacuum.

2 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

CHayes

Jul-29-13 10:46 AM

" A free market can only exist under a Capitalist economic system."

Wrong Phil, a free market can exist anywhere. Even as a black market in a state with a 100% planned economy. Of course, the purest form of free market would exist where there are literally no rules (i.e. anarchy).

I think the problem here is that again your projecting your idea of what you would like a "free market" to be rather than going with the standard definition, which would be a system of transaction free of governmental controls.

2 Agrees | 7 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Showing 25 of 54 comments Show More Comments
 
 

Post a Comment

You must first login before you can comment.

*Your email address:
*Password:
Remember my email address.
or
 
 
 

 

I am looking for:
in:
News, Blogs & Events Web