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Phony scandal?

August 5, 2013

So, the Obama administration is concerned that the "Phony Scandals" are distracting the nation....

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(30)

USABorn

Aug-05-13 2:39 AM

Well said Vincent!!!!

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 4:07 AM

I'm sorry but Snowden should not be allowed to return a free man. Stealing classified material that he was entrusted with is criminal. While I don't agree with some of the government policies that were uncovered, it doesn't give those people entrusted with security clearances the legal right to travel abroad revealing this nation's secrets.

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 4:10 AM

As for the other two points the author outlined... spot on.

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CarlHiller

Aug-05-13 5:59 AM

Vincent I agree with all your statements. Capricorn, an unconstitutional law is no law. The one overriding protection to all bad laws is the constitution and every American whether private, elected, hired, or as a consultant must defend the America from unjust laws and actions. Snowden should be a free man, not one of his actions were treasonous.

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 6:09 AM

Carl, as a former holder of many security clearances, I knew my obligation when it came to the handling of classified information. I never said anything about treason and I don't believe that is what he will be charged with. There are avenues in place that Snowden could have taken if he felt the information he had contained illegal acts against Americans. It's how he chose to divulge this information that I have a problem with.

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SteelerFan

Aug-05-13 8:34 AM

The first time the WH Press Secretary uttered the words 'phony scandals', the next question to him by the elite press corp should have been 'Which one was phony?'

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CMReeder

Aug-05-13 8:47 AM

Snowden ran before the release, he made himself a hunted man.

IRS scandal is not a scandal.

Benghazi is dead in the water.

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Darlin

Aug-05-13 8:47 AM

The word "Phony" only refers to our current administration.

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 8:52 AM

Benghazi is dead in the water. -Reeder

Very poor choice of words and I'm sure the victims families would disagree with you. The scandal is, the administration wants it to remain hidden, or in your poorly chosen words, "dead in the water".

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 9:09 AM

Bobbie, Snowden has a chain of command that he could have followed with his grievances and if he didn't like the answers he was given at one level, he had the right and opportunity to take his issues to the next level; as far as his representatives in Congress if need be. I know many in Congress would have loved the chance to listen to his grievances and they have the security clearance to deal with it. When you are given these clearances, you are trained how to deal with these issues just as you are in the military when dealing with unlawful orders. He would also have been protected by whistleblower laws if he chose to report his grievance through the proper channels. But he chose to run to China and Russia and make a mockery of the entire national security system. Personally I'm totally against the Patriot Act and this Prism database, but I don't want to see a precedence set where those trusted with our national secrets can run to foreign countries and advertise there grievances.

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SteelerFan

Aug-05-13 9:11 AM

Chuck: IRS scandal is not a scandal.

Benghazi is dead in the water.

Just like your brain.

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enigma

Aug-05-13 9:17 AM

Capricorn1, You've completely missed the point. If the NSA scandal is phoney, then Snowden did not give away secrets (he did not steal them in any case, they were given to him). If as some government officials have claimed, the NSA is not recording and storing our phone calls and e-mails, then Snowden did not divulge classified information, he lied and there's not law against lying about the government. By charging Snowden with a crime they have admitted the truth of his claims. That means that the NSA is recording your phone calls and e-mails and that they are being scanned for incriminating verbiage. This is not national security, this is tyranny. Ask yourself, is this a crime against the people of the United States or a tyrannical government. Remember, the founders of this country were all traitors to King George.

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enigma

Aug-05-13 9:31 AM

Capricorn1, Again, you miss the point. Snowden's chain of command was part of the problem as is Congress and the President. This program of recording and storing data was approved by Congress. Many in Congress did not know the extent, but if he had gone through the approved channels, he would only have been allowed to talk to people who already knew and approved the program. Guess what happens when you complain to a tyrant about his tyranny. Historically, that has never turned out well. You may agree with Snowden or not about whether this program is a problem, but don't try to pretend that he could have exposed it in any other way. At this point, it's the government against the people, and they want you to think it's the rich against the middle class, or the left against the right. Wake up people! Our freedom was bought at a very high price and you're just giving it away.

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mahs81

Aug-05-13 10:14 AM

Yet another letter writer that breaks the first and most important commandment: “Thou shall not say any negative word about our Savior – Barrack H. Obama or his administration” When will these infidels ever learn?

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 10:30 AM

I guess my question is then, why did he run to China and Russia if he felt what he did was right? Why not stay and take his fight to the American people and be judged by a jury of his peers? At worse he would be convicted of stealing government property. Like I said, I'm also totally against the government methods he revealed, however, if he is the hero you all are out to make him to be, then why did he run? And to China and Russia of all places.

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 11:05 AM

I think Jeffrey Toobin's article in the New Yorker says it best,

"Any government employee or contractor is warned repeatedly that the unauthorized disclosure of classified information is a crime.... These were legally authorized programs; in the case of Verizon Business’s phone records, Snowden certainly knew this, because he leaked the very court order that approved the continuation of the project. So he wasn’t blowing the whistle on anything illegal; he was exposing something that failed to meet his own standards of propriety. The question, of course, is whether the government can function when all of its employees (and contractors) can take it upon themselves to sabotage the programs they don’t like. That’s what Snowden has done."

Like I said, I don't want to see a precedence set where those trusted with our national secrets can run to foreign countries and advertise their grievances.

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enigma

Aug-05-13 11:31 AM

Capricorn1, Are you really Obama, or are you really that stupid? Snowden had no guarantee that he would not go to jail, but he would rather not. I can understand that. Snowden is a loser, and his motives may have not been pure, but I'm glad he did what he did. Apparently, you only want heroes with no flaws. Good luck with that. Many of us have known for years of this program, but the government has denied it. I'm glad to see it exposed.

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enigma

Aug-05-13 11:41 AM

Capricorn1, You misunderstand what I'm saying. I do not expect the government to allow the wholesale disclosure of secrets. But when this kind of secret is disclosed, the people need to let the government know in no uncertain terms that this program is unacceptable and prosecuting the person who made it known is unacceptable. Back to the letter, The point is, whether you agree with how the information came to light or not, this is a real scandal. This is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment. Can you at least agree with that?

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 11:41 AM

Enigma, No, I'm not Obama and I'm not stupid. I'm a retired military man that knows the dangers of leaking classified information. You seem to take this practice lightly, so I assume you never have been involved in the handling of classified documents.

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 11:54 AM

Enigma, I already stated that I am totally against the Patriot Act and this PRISM database. I guess I am just being critical about the method he chose to leak it. He's been planning this since before Obama was even elected. It doesn't seem like he put too much thought in his plan and he's now risked creating an international incident with Russia. I'm just looking at the total picture and the consequences of his actions. Yes it was good that the American people became aware, however, this case can not be used as a guideline when handling classified information and the end result has resulted in much more than just our right to know how it impacts our privacy.

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KrazyK

Aug-05-13 12:55 PM

Conservatives create their own scandals. If this is the best they can come up with, then they have to do much better to take down the liberal savior. These aren't scandals, they are screw-ups; and they don't come close to the "Iraq has WMD's" screw-up of the Bush administration.

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enigma

Aug-05-13 2:26 PM

Capricorn1,"I assume you never have been involved in the handling of classified documents."

You know what happens when you assume, except this time it was just you. I too am ex-military and there are secrets that I have told no-one in the over-30 years since then even though some of those things are probably no longer classified. The difference is that none of the secrets I'm keeping violate the rights of every person in the country. As a military man, you took an oath to protect the Constitution from ALL enemies, foreign and Domestic. Following orders come after that. Are you telling me that you were willing to dies for your country, but not to stand up to your own government for your country. Remember the country is not the government, it is the people.

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enigma

Aug-05-13 2:47 PM

KrazyK, Nixon was impeached for using the IRS to target his political enemies, so how is Obama doing the same thing not a scandal? You claim that Bush lied about WMDs in Iraq, but you're OK with Obama lying about Benghazi? You don't think that the government recording all of your phone calls and e-mails is a scandal? Is your definition of a scandal: "What Republicans do, can never be a Democrat"? It is brain-dead party line fools like you that are ruining this country.

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Capricorn1

Aug-05-13 3:30 PM

Enigma I think we both feel the same way, except I believe he made the mistake when he went to Russia and China with the information he has. Snowden worked for both the CIA and NSA with a top secret security clearance and he made it well known that he's willing to divulge classified information and his first stop is China and Russia. Something about those facts makes me extremely uncomfortable. We will have to agree to disagree on whether this man is a hero or whether his actions were reckless.

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enigma

Aug-05-13 4:19 PM

Capricorn1,"We will have to agree to disagree on whether this man is a hero or whether his actions were reckless."

No exactly. You see, I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive. I agree that his actions after the leak are strange, but not that he divulged this information. I understand why he chose China and Russia. They were the least likely to extradite him. There is no evidence that he has information that they want or that he intends to give it to them. If he offers information to them that hurts our country, then I'm all for frying him.

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