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‘War on coal’ overstated

August 17, 2013

The use of coal vs. natural gas for generating electricity presents a problem for the states like Pennsylvania with an abundance of both coal and natural gas....

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Scott36

Aug-18-13 1:49 PM

Capricorn, you again bring up valid points, and you are correct in my opinion. I personally think that the process could be improved upon, but then again there are very things in life that are perfect. BTW, I am sure we will agree/disagree in the future, thank you for being civil in your responses thus far, I shall try my best to do likewise.

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Scott36

Aug-18-13 1:38 PM

Enigma, I sincerely apologize for wasting your time. I was merely trying to ask a question. I thought it was straight forward enough, apparently you saw otherwise. Rather than getting in a war of "who said this", or "who meant that", I shall seek meaningful conversation elsewhere. Have a nice day, be happy & safe!

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gavinf56

Aug-17-13 11:30 PM

A poster could have all disagrees but still be in the top 5 five with a green arrow because of the number of disagrees. That is why MrShaman shows up in the top of with green arrows.

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gavinf56

Aug-17-13 11:26 PM

"You should have figured that out when you see both Shaman and Reeder in the top five with green arrows when hardly anyone ever agrees with them." - Capricorn1

The green and red arrows have nothing to do with which button is hit more. It is the total number of hits on those buttons combined that drives that arrow.

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Capricorn1

Aug-17-13 10:51 PM

No problem Francine. If you go back and read any posts that I had with you, I've never once showed disrespect to you in anyway. In fact the only two that I lose my cool with is Shaman and Reeder when they choose to bring disrespect to our men and women in uniform. And I will back our warriors until the day I die. As far as you and I, it's water under the bridge.

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Capricorn1

Aug-17-13 10:40 PM

Oh and btw Francine, the agree and disagree buttons are a joke. You should have figured that out when you see both Shaman and Reeder in the top five with green arrows when hardly anyone ever agrees with them. LoL I don't even bother with them. I choose to post my beliefs and my experiences and I really don't care if you or anyone else agrees with them. It won't change my opinion either way.

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Capricorn1

Aug-17-13 10:30 PM

Francine you spend way too much time keeping track of me. You're right, I did say I wouldn't be back, but I have every right to post on here as anyone else. You can continue the name calling, if that makes you feel better. As far as my screen name, I happen to be a Capricorn and I had to use the 1 because it told me Capricorn was already taken. But you can make fun of that too if it makes you feel better... Once again, have a nice evening.

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Capricorn1

Aug-17-13 9:47 PM

Oh and btw Francine, you state in your post that you have no problem with coal. So I guess it's only the water being contaminated by fracking that you care about, and not the air we breathe being contaminated by coal. What makes one any better than the other?

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Capricorn1

Aug-17-13 9:40 PM

Francine, So now you call me a jerk. The last time I commented with you, you called me manipulative. And you wonder why I choose not to address you. I have no problem with "sparring" with the likes of Shaman and Reeder, but you are a woman and my mother taught me manners. Have a nice evening.

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enigma

Aug-17-13 8:55 PM

Scott, Do you have a problem with reading comprehension or are you being intentionally obstinate? I called it a 'war on coal' because that was the term being used. After you objected, I agreed that war was not the best description, and you see that as contradiction, which it is not. I explain to you that the hazards of coal are over-stated and you ask if I don't think that is an "urgent and vital interest". Obviously, since the threat is not real, the answer would be no, but you chose to ignore most of what I've said. You have proven to be insincere in your 'desire' to have a meaningful dialog. You have your own 'war on coal' and you won't let facts get in your way. Your rouse won't work on me. You're not as smart as you think.

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Capricorn1

Aug-17-13 8:35 PM

Scott seeing as the extraction process is not going away no matter how loud people protest, then it is the industry. If the process was regulated out tomorrow, it would have a huge impact on the industry.

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Scott36

Aug-17-13 7:49 PM

Capricorn, I have been reading these posts for a number of years to try to better understand the people of this section of the state. If you are referring to the poster I believe you are, I believe that poster is not so much against NG, but rather the current extraction practices. There is a big difference.

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Capricorn1

Aug-17-13 7:32 PM

I wonder if the people that would like to see the switch from coal to natural gas, are the same ones that rally against the gas industry? I've already seen one poster on here rooting for NG that is often protesting the loudest about the NG industry in this area. You can't have it both ways.

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nobud74

Aug-17-13 7:20 PM

I know the cost of Natural Gas has dropped significantly over the past three years. I cannot log into UGI at the moment to view my past bills because that part of the site is down for maintenance, but I do know it has dropped about 3-4 cents per unit from about 10.5 to about 7. If the site is back up soon, I will get the correct figures for you. You can view about 3 years worth of bills there and it is useful.

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Scott36

Aug-17-13 7:08 PM

However you feel about coal, there is a war on coal being waged by the government-Enigma 2:47 post Scott, First, I don't consider it a war either.-Enigma 4:23 post Your words would seem to contradict themselves. I was only trying to ask a simple question as to why inflammatory phrases need to be used. If you do not care to explain why or how you state something either consider choosing your words more carefully, or simply say that you do not care to explain yourself. To the second part of your post, I would consider our air, water, & environment an "urgent and vital interest". Would you not?

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enigma

Aug-17-13 4:23 PM

Scott, First, I don't consider it a war either. Coal is not fighting back, that would make it a massacre. If you prefer that term, that's OK with me. The point is that to deny that it (whatever you call it) is going on is folly, and the point of the letter was just that.

Second, the government has no business declaring war (or whatever you want to call it) on any industry absent an urgent and vital public interest. The hazards of coal, are largely overstated. The pollution aspect is undeniable, but has been largely mitigated in recent years. The global warming aspect has been entirely fabricated. Recent data collected by NASA shows that CO2 traps much less heat than the figure being used by global warming alarmist. The models that predict earth warming are all wrong. Man-made global warming is a myth. I'm just fine with alternative sources of energy, but destroying the economy to get there, I am not.

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Scott36

Aug-17-13 3:55 PM

Enigma, First off, there are things about coal that appeal to me(jobs, abundance of etc.), also things that I do not like(pollution, gasses etc.). My question to you would be, why does it really matter if it is called a "war on coal" or not? When I hear things like this, to me it is just a phrase to be used to deflect from meaningful discussion. If Obama states that he wants to "put coal out of business", it would seem that he is being quite clear as to his intentions, why is an inflammatory phrase need?

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enigma

Aug-17-13 2:47 PM

Considering that Obama has said that he will put coal out of business, it seems just unrealistic to say that there is no war on coal. Ron says that gas is cheaper, which it is not, but even so, much of the cost of coal is taxes and Obama wants to increase them. His EPA cronies are trying to regulate coal out of business, but there's no war on coal. What Ron really means is that the war on coal is justifiable. Most of the letter is explaining why we need to stop using coal. However you feel about coal, there is a war on coal being waged by the government. If you feel that is a good thing, then say so, don't try to claim that it doesn't exist.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Aug-17-13 10:40 AM

"I think widespread solar assist would be a big benefit energy-wise."--CaveFelem

++

Yeah, I know you thought that I would go for that idea.

Who do you want to assist you? I am sure the Chinese would love to lend you some money that you can pay back with interest.

I suggest that you pay for it yourself.

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nobud74

Aug-17-13 9:05 AM

Cave, why should tax incentives be used to encourage solar usage? We don't have enough tax income as it is. Homeowners will take the initiative when it is financially feasible for them. This will also encourage the solar industry to make more efficient and cheaper products.

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Capricorn1

Aug-17-13 9:00 AM

Gee...you mean President Obama has encouraged ENTIRELY-NEW BU$INE$$E$??!!!!

How "criminal". Shaman

Actually this technology and partnership was developed long before Obama took office. He just wants to make it look like the industry is doing nothing to improve it's environmental footprint.

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CaveFelem

Aug-17-13 8:57 AM

@ToTEXASfromPA - agreed. I could get behind some incentives to make solar panels affordable for homeowners. I think widespread solar assist would be a big benefit energy-wise.

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Tedeaux

Aug-17-13 8:42 AM

I agree with the balance approach that Totexasfrompa mentions. In the end, all of the fuel stocks will be required to keep us warm in the winter at a reasonable cost.

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MrShaman

Aug-17-13 8:40 AM

"The coal industry is not dying anytime soon, regardless of Obama's intentions. Across the country, coal burning power plants are retrofitting their smoke stacks with scrubbers to bring them into compliance. They are able to do this by selling the byproduct of these scrubbers, synthetic gypsum, to both American Gypsum and United States Gypsum for the production of wall board. We have it happening right here locally in Washingtonville. It is a win/win/win situation for all three industries and capitalism at it's finest." - Capricorn1

*

Gee...you mean President Obama has encouraged ENTIRELY-NEW BU$INE$$E$??!!!!

How "criminal".

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CMReeder

Aug-17-13 8:17 AM

Good, solid, factual letter!

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