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March to progress

August 18, 2013

With every passing day, Americans learn more and more about the Affordable Care Act....

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(42)

mikekerstetter

Aug-18-13 4:59 AM

Christopher Erdman-"Non-profit hospitals remain tax-exempt due to the charitable care they provide to those in the community who cannot pay."

The problem with that is that the people who do not pay drive up the cost for those of us who have insurance and/or pay out of pocket for our services. The hospitals have to pay their bills too, so the money they are losing has to come from somewhere, and it's out of someone elses pocket.

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mikekerstetter

Aug-18-13 5:30 AM

Bobbie, I didn't say that Obamacare changed that.

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to explain how making everyone pay their own premiums, deductibles, co-pays and/or paying everything as you go would solve the health care cost issue and improve the economy.

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Garben78

Aug-18-13 6:59 AM

Blame it on bush and former mayor bloom and all our local and national problems are over

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enigma

Aug-18-13 7:28 AM

"Can you imagine a future where there are roughly 200 or so "hospital companies" in the entire country?"

Obama is imagining "ONE hospital company". It's called the government. It doesn't work well anywhere else, but it will work just fine here.

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enigma

Aug-18-13 7:41 AM

mikekerstetter,"BTW, I'm still waiting for you to explain how making everyone pay their own premiums, deductibles, co-pays and/or paying everything as you go would solve the health care cost issue and improve the economy."

Of course you are. It has to do with the free market and supply and demand. You know, things you know nothing about, so you wouldn't understand, but it would work. I will try to simplify part of it for you. If people had to pay for healthcare themselves, they would not pay the prices that they are willing for their insurance to pay so providers would have to lower their cost and streamline operations to save money. People would also only get the care they required and not just get things done because "my insurance will pay for it". People are more careful with their own money than they are will your money. Are you starting to see it?

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mikekerstetter

Aug-18-13 8:03 AM

enigma, you really need to stop painting with so broad of a brush. I really do understand economics.

That said, your assertion that hospitals would lower their charges is speculative at best. Further, if most people paid out of pocket they would only go to the Dr when it's an emergency. A simple fix or change to treat something early, commonly referred to as Preventative care, is much more cost effective, but will give way to catastrophic emergency treatments that costs 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars to treat. That is a verifiable fact. It's why so many people lose their homes and declare bankruptcy every year.

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eriklatranyi

Aug-18-13 8:16 AM

Mike:

You are wrong about preventative care.

HMOs were the brainchild of liberals who could not get single-payer. Their idea was to cover preventative care so people would be healthy.

The problem is that preventative care includes massive, comprehensive testing that wastes money.

Studies have shown that while the cost of treating an illness, that only affects 10% of the population, after it has manifested is very high, it is still cheaper than testing the other 90% of people who will never develop that disease.

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CMReeder

Aug-18-13 9:12 AM

The right wing and their scare the crap out of people. They shutdown the government in order to defund ACA they will be held accountable by the American people as they were the last time they pull this crap. The only problem with ACA is the republicans in Congress.

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Ritty77

Aug-18-13 9:36 AM

"They shutdown the government in order to defund ACA they will be held accountable by the American people as they were the last time they pull this crap."

First of all, Clinton "shut down" the government by vetoing the budget sent to him by the GOP-controlled Congress.

Second, in the election following Clinton's shutdown (1996), the GOP-controlled House "suffered" a net loss of three seats, while the GOP-controlled Senate gained two seats, maintaining their majorities in both houses.

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Ritty77

Aug-18-13 9:37 AM

"The only problem with ACA is the republicans in Congress."

How so? How have "the Republicans in Congress" caused a problem for the ACA?

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rick424

Aug-18-13 9:59 AM

"Stay healthy my friends."

That is the Republican health care plan.

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philunderwood

Aug-18-13 10:20 AM

If you really want to determine why healthcare costs so much, look at how many people actually deliver healthcare and how many are only involved in trying to manage the healthcare industry. The ACA will simply increase the management costs while doing nothing to actually deliver healthcare. All of those managers will be paid by taxpayers on top of adding to the cost of providing actual healthcare. Sounds like a losing proposition to me.

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Ritty77

Aug-18-13 10:21 AM

Good post, Rick. Just your speed.

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rick424

Aug-18-13 10:28 AM

Maybe so Ritty but true it is,

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mikekerstetter

Aug-18-13 10:41 AM

eriklatranyi-"Mike: You are wrong about preventative care. HMOs were the brainchild of liberals who could not get single-payer. Their idea was to cover preventative care so people would be healthy."

Erik, if that is true, why do HMO and the closely related PPO plans cost less to purchase than the traditional major medical plans? If HMO's, which favor preventative care, cost more to operate than the Major Medical plans the opposite would be true.

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mikekerstetter

Aug-18-13 10:43 AM

philunderwood-"If you really want to determine why healthcare costs so much, look at how many people actually deliver healthcare and how many are only involved in trying to manage the healthcare industry."

Agreed. And that is a very good argument why we should have a single payer system.

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mikekerstetter

Aug-18-13 10:46 AM

One thing I need to point out is that Obamacare is not a single payer or national health care system. As pointed out by many here, there are some problems with it, like it being cheaper for employers to pay the fine and pocket the savings rather than keep paying for their employees insurance coverage.

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gavinf56

Aug-18-13 10:46 AM

The cost savings of HMO's are due to it being "managed" care, i.e. "..patients need a referral from the PCP in order to see a specialist or other doctor, and the gatekeeper cannot authorize that referral unless the HMO guidelines deem it necessary."

Indemnity plans have no such controls, allowing the insured individual to request and get as much care as they wish.

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gavinf56

Aug-18-13 10:54 AM

Some of the unintended consequences of the ACA that many Republicans had warned about are coming true, in particular, the reduction of hours for many individuals below the threshold requiring healthcare coverage to be provider.

The more concerning aspect happening right now, is the increasing crony capitalism in providing "special exemptions" to the provisions of the bill to select groups.

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philunderwood

Aug-18-13 11:26 AM

Not so long ago employers offered major medical insurance; then came union demands for full coverage insurance and government intervention. Those that are pro-union are also pro-ACA. It’s part of the same collectivist mindset. We can no longer pay for even minor healthcare out of pocket and it’s going to get much worse.

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mikekerstetter

Aug-18-13 12:25 PM

philunderwood-"Not so long ago employers offered major medical insurance; then came union demands for full coverage insurance and government intervention."

As noted in another post, Major Medical plans cost more than HMO's. I've worked two jobs in the last 26 years. One was non-union, one is Union. Both offered incentives to choose the HMO option. If I want major medical now I would pay the additional cost over what my employer pays towards the HMO. It's simply a myth that major medical is more cost effective than an HMO.

philunderwood-"Those that are pro-union are also pro-ACA"

Another blanket statement that simply is not true. I'm pro union but I'm not for ACA. And it's been reported that a lot of unions aren't backing ACA and in fact support repeal of most of it.

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mikekerstetter

Aug-18-13 12:30 PM

gavinf56-"The cost savings of HMO's are due to it being "managed" care, i.e. "..patients need a referral from the PCP in order to see a specialist or other doctor, and the gatekeeper cannot authorize that referral unless the HMO guidelines deem it necessary." Indemnity plans have no such controls, allowing the insured individual to request and get as much care as they wish."

True, which reinforces the fact that HMOs, managed care, (which includes preventative services) is a more cost effective way to treat patients.

I've never had trouble getting a referral for a specialist from my Primary Care Physician. I may have had to go to physical therapy before getting an MRI, but I've not been denied a specialist visit.

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philunderwood

Aug-18-13 1:46 PM

Mike, when I speak of major medical insurance, I’m talking about coverage of only items like hospital stays and expensive tests. Doctor’s visits were paid for out of pocket. I’m old enough to remember those days but I doubt if those policies are even offered now. HMOs and other full coverage plans came along after the period I’m referring to.

Perhaps I should’ve said taxpayer paid or single payer insurance instead of ACA.

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JerryfromRI

Aug-18-13 1:49 PM

Access to healthcare is a basic human right. Period.

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enigma

Aug-18-13 2:17 PM

Jerry, Access maybe, having someone else pay for it, NO!

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