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Drug lab controversy

August 20, 2013

Wow! Can you believe it? The elected officials of Old Lycoming Township did not know anything about a drug lab coming to Old Lycoming Township....

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(60)

MrShaman

Aug-20-13 6:04 AM

"Wow! Can you believe it? The elected officials of Old Lycoming Township did not know anything about a drug lab coming to Old Lycoming Township." - Dave Shirn Jr.

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This is just a guess, but...I don't think such ventures are (typically) doing much advertising. At least your disappointment, in not being informed, is (now) officially noted.

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nobud74

Aug-20-13 6:57 AM

It's a clinic to help drug abusers not a drug lab. It's to help with rehab. Stick to selling cars.

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Capricorn1

Aug-20-13 7:19 AM

You're right Nobud, it's going to be a methadone clinic for those addicted to opiates such as pain killers and her ion. Studies have proven that crime in the areas of these clinics is not effected by it's presence. Although the relapse rate of addicts using these clinics is around 75%, it still shows that they do have some success. The addicts are also screened for HIV and hepatitis during treatment. Personally I am 100% behind the use of these clinics and inpatient rehab facilities to help battle the disease of addiction.

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Scott36

Aug-20-13 7:29 AM

Capricorn, Once again I find myself supporting your post. If your figures are correct(& I am sure you did not just pull them out of the air) 25% is not the best, but if someone close to me needed it & was in that 25%, I would be extremely happy. Good post, have a nice day! Scott

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Capricorn1

Aug-20-13 7:35 AM

Scott, depending on what web site you go to, you get different relapse figures but the average seemed to be about 75%. And you're right, although this may seem high, it is a life changing opportunity for the 25%. Also, these clinics have an even higher success rate in aiding addicts to control their addiction so that they can function normally in society.

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nobud74

Aug-20-13 8:39 AM

Capricorn, having some people who are close to me addicted to hard drugs and having seen some of those succeed and some fail and some succeed with impaired function later, I believe we should invest more in these sorts of treatment facilities. We need to aid them in a non-threatening way so they will seek treatment. We will never conquer the drug problem until we dial back the demand and we can only do that by treatment. This sort of facility if it were a taxpayer funded entity would be a better use of funds than arrest and incarceration. Arrest and incarceration doesn't work, or after 40 years we would have no demand. As for the disease thing, I don't believe it is a disease, it is a choice. You choose to use and you choose to quit. Therapy and support help.

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spike2

Aug-20-13 8:56 AM

This is not a drug lab. It is a badly needed clinic that will help local addicts. Residency is required so no worries about out-of-county invasion. BTW, Watsontown, Sunbury and State College already have clinics and are not having any problems. White Deer PHP is in Loyalsock at the entrance to Giant from Westminster. No problems there. No increase in crime. As to disease - hero in does alter neuro-receptors in the brain and body chemistry like no other drug. That being said, I absolutely agree with Capricorn, Scott and Nobud.

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Capricorn1

Aug-20-13 9:10 AM

Nobud, I too have a niece that is an addict and she's addicted to pain killers and coke. I've seen how it has ruined her life and got her in trouble by stealing to support her addiction. And sadly enough, her brother, my nephew, died at the age of 28 from liver failure because of alcohol and drug addiction. Yet, my niece still didn't learn her lesson. That's why I agree with the experts that addiction is a disease.

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philunderwood

Aug-20-13 9:43 AM

Having been part of supervision and management where I last worked, I was trained in handling drug use by employees. My company was positive in helping users, but there was a limit. One thing that stuck with me was users will continue to use until they reach their personal bottom. That may be at any point on the way to addiction from a warning by their employer to waking up in the gutter or emergency room. I’m not sure how a methadone clinic will help unless the addict has bottomed out.

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SteelerFan

Aug-20-13 9:47 AM

no bud: 'It's a clinic to help drug abusers not a drug lab. It's to help with rehab. Stick to selling cars.'

I wouldn't buy a car from Shirn's if it was the last dealership

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MrShaman

Aug-20-13 9:50 AM

"...sadly enough, her brother, my nephew, died at the age of 28 from liver failure because of alcohol and drug addiction. Yet, my niece still didn't learn her lesson. That's why I agree with the experts that addiction is a disease." - Capricorn1

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Addiction is ALSO a SYMPTOM...of deeper emotional-problems. People don't "self-medicate", like that, for no good reason.

TOO-many families refuse to deal with that. Some, prefer to ignore it.

If your child is DRIVEN to self-medicate, you need to find-out WHY...and, BLAMING THE DRUGS AIN'T GONNA GET THE JOB DONE!!!!

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MrShaman

Aug-20-13 10:03 AM

"I’m not sure how a methadone clinic will help unless the addict has bottomed out." - philunderwood

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What clinics DO...much like making clean-syringes available (if that's the addicts preference)...is keep people ALIVE, until they're tired o' "the Life", and are (finally) ready to "kick".

I look at it, this way. If h e r o i n was legal, it'd be MUCH-less expensive. If an individual's CHOICE is to (merely) work some day-labor job...enough to provide their "medicine", and all other basics...that's THEIR CHOICE. It's NO one else's business. What would be the difference, between that...and, someone who spent every waking-hour (after work) sitting in a bar?

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Capricorn1

Aug-20-13 10:05 AM

"Addiction is ALSO a SYMPTOM...of deeper emotional-problems. People don't "self-medicate", like that, for no good reason.

TOO-many families refuse to deal with that. Some, prefer to ignore it."

Shaman I agree and I don't want to go into the problems it has created between me and my brother because more wasn't done.

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enigma

Aug-20-13 10:40 AM

Sham,"I look at it, this way. If h e r o i n was legal, it'd be MUCH-less expensive."

You're kidding right? If it was legal, then it would be subject to government regulation and would actually be more expensive. The process would be more expensive at every step. Illegal drugs (unregulated) would still be cheaper. Even if that were not the case, being a narcotic, her0in would still require a prescription, which most users could not get and most doctors would not write. Also, methadone is used to get people off her0in not to keep them alive until they decide to get off, and it doesn't work most of the time.

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enigma

Aug-20-13 10:48 AM

Sham, I agree that addiction is more a mental illness then a crime, but methadone treatments do nothing to address the underlying mental issues. That's why it doesn't work most of the time. It addresses the physical, but not the mental. Many users return to the street once they find that the treatment doesn't work, and it saps whatever hope they had. If you want to help an addict, you need to send them to a good rehab, not a clinic that will shoot them up.

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spike2

Aug-20-13 10:53 AM

enigma - I agree with you as to legalization of her oin. You are factually incorrect regarding methadone.Methadone is first used to relieve symptoms of withdrawal and eliminate the psychological and physical craving. Concurrent counseling is put in motion along with medical evaluations. Individuals are encouraged to obtain employment or receive training. These individuals are no longer in the "street" and begin a 'normal" life of work and ability to maintain themselves financially. After a full adjustment through all the above modalities, a very gradual taper begins. By the time the individual reaches a point of being methadone free, he/she should be well adjusted to a new lifestyle. This isn't your old inner city methadone clinics. Times have changed. the need is here as evidenced in other comments.

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spike2

Aug-20-13 10:55 AM

I have a suggestion. those with questions should call the Wmspt. Family medical center and speak with the Director. At least obtain information from the center and then comment.

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MrShaman

Aug-20-13 12:46 PM

Sham,"I look at it, this way. If h e r o i n was legal, it'd be MUCH-less expensive."

You're kidding right?" - enigma

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Not at all. Back in the early-'80s, when this Country was AWASH in c o c a i n e, an article in "High Times" showed a one-ounce jar of pharmaceutical-c o k e that sold, legally, for $30. Black-market price was $1200, for the same amount.

I'm sure alcohol-prices were pretty-much the same, during The War On Alcohol.

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MrShaman

Aug-20-13 12:53 PM

Sham, I agree that addiction is more a mental illness then a crime, but methadone treatments do nothing to address the underlying mental issues. That's why it doesn't work most of the time." - enigma

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Doesn't "work"?????? Methadone isn't INTENDED as a cure...only a legal way to help addicts get-by...until they're ready to "kick".

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enigma

Aug-20-13 12:59 PM

Sham, A few things have changed since the 80's, not to mention that your comparison is totally invalid. Her0in is not coke and there is no such thing as pharmaceutical grade of either one anymore. Thanks to open borders the price of her0in is quite low now. Apparently you did not read or understand my comments or you would not have made this silly comparison.

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Shulski

Aug-20-13 1:04 PM

The level of ignorance in Lycoming Co. never ceases to amaze me. 1) a drug lab is a place where drugs are made. A methadone clinic is a place for addicts to pick up legal drugs so they stop abusing ******. Addicts have proven untrustworthy when given prescriptions for methadone and suboxone. 2) What does this particular, ignorant reader expect from local politicians who get paid maybe four figures a year? Do they expect the awareness of DC politicians who get six figures plus lobbyist perks? Sorry, your local politicians probably have day jobs. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

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enigma

Aug-20-13 1:07 PM

Sham," Methadone isn't INTENDED as a cure."

If it were not intended as a 'cure', it would be illegal. Agreed there are many who take the treatment who just want a free high and have no intention of getting clean, but that is the purpose. Read Spike2's 10:53 post. He seems to be more up to date on exactly what it entails now. If it works to get addicts off drugs (there is no cure) then I'm all for it, but I remain skeptical.

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enigma

Aug-20-13 1:10 PM

Shulski, Your are correct. I must admit, I'm not familiar with what they want to put on Lycoming Creek Road. Can you answer that question? Is it a drug lab or a methadone clinic? I just assumed that the other commenter knew. My bad.

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sideliner

Aug-20-13 1:17 PM

Spike, I stopped into the clinic with a family member who will soon be availing herself of the services provided there. I did talk to the director. This clinic is long overdue and my family member should have been on methadone years ago. There is something sad about a 55 year old H addict.

She had 12 years clean once but succombed to the siren call and has had trouble since 2006 trying to put together any time. This clinic may be her last resort and hopefully save her life. There is a reason you don't see a lot of old H addicts. They don't live that long and she is on borrowed time.

"blame you municipal and county planning for not catching that." ???

More like thank them...

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USABorn

Aug-20-13 2:05 PM

MrShaman - 9:50 AM

"Addiction is ALSO a SYMPTOM...of deeper emotional-problems. People don't "self-medicate", like that, for no good reason."

"If your child is DRIVEN to self-medicate, you need to find-out WHY...and, BLAMING THE DRUGS AIN'T GONNA GET THE JOB DONE!!!!"

Addiction is a psychological dependence, whether it is smoking or drugs. Teenagers are not "self-medicating" when they use drugs, they are using drugs, i.e., ******, to improve their emotional state, and to give them a sense of euphoria.

Saying children are DRIVEN TO SELF-MEDICATE is ludicrous. They like feeling high. They see their friends "using" so it must be okay.

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