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Guilty first

August 22, 2013

I remember when, except for Interal Revenue Service tax proof, you were automatically innocent. Increasingly now you are guilty until you prove your innocence – even at Little League....

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(31)

sideliner

Aug-22-13 2:53 AM

My question exactly, Francine. Apparently I missed what you missed for I have no idea what he is talking about here???

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Tgrammiex4

Aug-22-13 3:46 AM

Well, based on all the information given, I'm appalled!

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sideliner

Aug-22-13 4:06 AM

As well you should be, grammie!

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Capricorn1

Aug-22-13 4:08 AM

I believe he may be talking about the articles covering the searches at little league entrances. But once again we have to guess.

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Premier

Aug-22-13 4:56 AM

The IRS is auditing the Little League Players? GASP!

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sideliner

Aug-22-13 5:42 AM

Premiere, PLEASE let's not get this scandal started!! (wink)

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MrShaman

Aug-22-13 6:02 AM

I surely would like to meet the S-G employee, who felt there there was some kind of pertinence, within this letter.

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wwhickok

Aug-22-13 6:04 AM

If you are talking about the searches at Little League let me educate you. First of all, from my experience Security is very respectful, they're doing their job, it's a routine, if you're polite to them, they'll be polite back.

It's simple really, all they're trying to do is make sure no one is bringing in things that they shouldn't, for your own safety and the safety of others.

They could forego the searches, but then when someone brings in a pipe bomb and blows up the left field wall you're going to be screaming "Why aren't they doing more??!?"

So which is it? Do you want them to provide the comfort of knowing you're safe, or do you expect them to allow people to run crazy and do whatever they want?

And how this is even remotely comparable to getting audited is beyond me.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Aug-22-13 6:07 AM

As society becomes more immoral or as more become aware of the amount and methods of immorality, society places more restrictions on its members.

At least they don't classify the boys' bats as weapons, otherwise no game.

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sideliner

Aug-22-13 6:51 AM

Let's get a REAL debate going this morning along the lines of "Guilty first."

This morning's SG article "Crack ring conspirator admits role" reports that 2 defendants (brothers) in the case pled guilty to over 30 drug trafficking and weapons charges, each given 7-14 yr sentences by Marc Lovecchio. Sounds reasonable to me and rationale was given by judge.

My concerns/questions come from a later article comment: "Had Lowe's case gone to trial, he could have faced more than 60 years behind bars." (here is where the debate will come in)

Is a defendant MORE guilty after losing at trial than he was after a guilty plea, thereby deserving more prison time? The way I see it, a criminal defendant is essentially punished for exercising his Constitutional right to a trial by jury of peers.

<<<< more

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sideliner

Aug-22-13 6:52 AM

<<<< cont'd

The argument will be that rather, he is rewarded for not wasting valuable resources, for not clogging the system with unwinnable trials.

Real guilt or innocence somehow gets lost in the assembly line like churning of the criminal justice system. Just get disposition. Just get this case off the docket. This kind of setup encourages pleas to crimes not committed. I've personally heard of half a dozen cases like this. No doubt there are many more.

I don't know what the solution is, but I do know this is a problem that needs to be looked at with clear, unemotional eyes that seek justice and truth within the system, not just efficiency.

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sideliner

Aug-22-13 6:55 AM

Not meaning to change the subject,t and my apologies given for doing so if I am interrupting. I just didn't see the last couple of posts before offering further fodder for exchange....

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Capricorn1

Aug-22-13 7:02 AM

Sideliner, you answered your own question, there is no way our system could function if you took away the plea bargain process. We are in a small community and the court system and jails are constantly overburdened. Imagine larger communities and big cities and the number of cases they handle. You seem to imply that the sentences given as a result of a trial are unfair, when in reality they are many times the sentences required by law. The system isn't perfect but considering the amount of cases it handles each year, I think they are doing the best they can.

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enigma

Aug-22-13 7:25 AM

Sham,"I surely would like to meet the S-G employee, who felt there there was some kind of pertinence, within this letter."

Like most smaller papers, the S-G prints all letters they receive, unless that letter violates one of the rules. They don't have a rule that the letter makes sense. It's a fair policy, but sometimes we get to read some really bad letters.

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wwhickok

Aug-22-13 7:53 AM

sideliner, my only thought on what you said is that I believe the "punishment for going to trial and losing' is based on a 'not guilty' plea where the defendent refuses to admit guilt. The problem with this is, what if they're really not guilty even if they are found guilty? Then you're punishing them more severely for doing nothing. I understand there would be no way of knowing that, the only reason I pose such a scenario is that we've seen cases in the past where 'criminals' were released years after being imprisoned because evidence was presented that proved them innocent despite originally being found guilty.

So my short point to my long winded thought is that a punishment as a result of a not guilty plea>found Guilty via Trial is, imo, unjustified.

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SteelerFan

Aug-22-13 8:17 AM

Sham: 'I surely would like to meet the S-G employee, who felt there there was some kind of pertinence, within this letter.'

It's the editor. Duh.

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Capricorn1

Aug-22-13 8:24 AM

I think you're missing the plea bargain concept by thinking that they are being punished more if they go to trial. Plea bargains often either reduce the charges or throw out some of the charges, which in turn reduces the sentence. If the defendant chooses to go to trial, he is then going to face all the original charges. Thus, he will be facing a greater sentence if found guilty. I don't see the controversy and frankly, the plea bargain system is skewed towards defendants and allows them to serve much lighter sentences. Are you going to have mistakes. Of course. The system is comprised of humans, it will naturally have mistakes within it.

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CMReeder

Aug-22-13 8:43 AM

So is this an example of one of those short, to the point, informed letters Donna Lambert likes?

Let's face it none of knows what the writer is talking about. It could be the security measures they put in place after 9/11. It could be the changes that Little League has made about the game. Who knows the writer is not clear on the subject.

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DavidBross

Aug-22-13 8:45 AM

Two thoughts: First, if the author is the namesake of the county historical museum, then this letter is an embarrassment to the museum. Second, I believe the author wrote this letter and sent it in as soon as he was done writing. It has all the earmarks of a first draft. Ok, a third thought, I wonder if he is as careless in other aspects of his life.

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sideliner

Aug-22-13 8:48 AM

Know personally of a case of woman being charged with aggravated assault against a male. She was 120 lbs soaking wet.. The actual perpetrator was another male who did beat the victim quite severely. It was a spontaneous fight between the two men, the victim have been in a previous relationship with the woman. The "Beater" was a friend of both. It happened at her house where the victim came unannounced and uninvited. A fight broke out between the two, but the victim, out of revenge, falsely accused the female of participation.

Long story coming to an end, the woman was never offered 1.5 yrs. Not being guilty of anything, she took it to trial. The victim testified. She lost. She did a 3.5 yr sentence in Muncy Prison. More than double the time. It's not a deal if you didn't do it.

The SG case clearly indicates that the sentences were not mandatory. Consider the vast range from plea to trial... from a 14 yr max to 60 is quite a difference.

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enigma

Aug-22-13 8:54 AM

My best guess is that the writer is upset that a certain team was eliminated from contention because they were found to be ineligible. I don't remember the details and the writer didn't provide any, but his first contention makes me believe that's what he was talking about. Maybe we could have discussed it if he had provided some context.

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MrShaman

Aug-22-13 9:28 AM

"I remember when, except for Interal Revenue Service tax proof, you were automatically innocent." - Thomas T. Taber

*

...At least, that's what our brochure says.

*

See:

Musarium: Without Sanctuary

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MrShaman

Aug-22-13 9:35 AM

"As society becomes more immoral or as more become aware of the amount and methods of immorality, society places more restrictions on its members." - ToTEXASfromPA

*

"Immorality" is a relative-concept. Any doubters (o' that) only need to reference the Middle East...you know...where the Bible was "born".

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Tgrammiex4

Aug-22-13 10:07 AM

Funny how you can submit a letter with no facts and provoke this many different guesses as to what it may have been about,LOL.

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Scott36

Aug-22-13 10:36 AM

I surely would like to meet the S-G employee, who felt there there was some kind of pertinence, within this letter.-MrShaman I have felt that way about a number of choices(I sincerely hope that some of these are not the best of the best to choose from in this area!!) You may need to catch him between "time-outs" & nap times.

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