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Testing the water

Gubernatorial candidate prioritizes education

August 28, 2013

Education, employment, transportation and energy — that’s what Democratic gubernatorial candidate John R....

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(38)

MarcusY

Aug-29-13 9:11 AM

djzlucky - You hit the nail of what I meant. By admin I mean vice presidents, deans, etc. I, too, worked for a state university and saw the same that you referenced among staff - and also them crapped on, horrifically and consistently, by the admin. The lying, cheating, fraud, etc., that I witnessed among admin (actually saw first hand) was astounding. I even saw students with the "right" last names get out of legal accountability for actual crimes while "nobody" students were prosecuted aggressively. It was sickening, really. The culture was poisonous and the only thing that kept it together were the educators and staff members who gave it their absolute best in spite of the aforementioned issues.

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djzlucky

Aug-29-13 8:49 AM

Marcus, I've agreed with many of your posts up to this point, but I have to ask...by "Admin" do you mean actual administrators or do you mean clerical/custodial staff?

I ask because I happen to be a staff member at a state University and can attest that there are too many hard-working, caring and conscientious staff to count. Yes, there are those that would rather do the minimum needed to stay employed but they are few and far between.

As for the "Admin", I tend to agree that there are too many vice-presidents, assistant deans, etc. Just one of those positions' salaries would pay for 4 or 5 more electricians, plumbers, secretaries or bus drivers.

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MarcusY

Aug-29-13 7:48 AM

Cont'd - to Cap - Google "sanctuary model". It's enlightening, and really, really smart. Most schools don't even try for it... everyone is just trying to hold on until the drive home. In a for profit world, very few schools would make it. They'd almost all go under.

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MarcusY

Aug-29-13 7:44 AM

Cap - I don't disagree entirely. Where I DO disagree is here: If you paid teachers more, gave them the resources they need rather than, as you've saliently pointed out, sending all the money to administration, I believe you'd get more out of the professionals drawn to that field. You'd also draw more talent to it. As it is today, school districts are like colleges. I'm quite familiar with educational systems. My overwhelming experience has been that admin works very, very hard to avoid having to do much. As long as the system is as it is - and admin does little, gets paid well, and rides on the backs of their teaching staff (rather than trying to empower them and create a healthy culture) - we'll get what we've gotten. Without going into detail - I'm speaking from over 20 years of successful experience. These discussions are hard for me because the answers are simple in concept but would mean many people's lives would become inconvenient. They'd have to actually work...

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Scott36

Aug-28-13 9:12 PM

Capricorn, please explain to me how this country became a "welfare state" because of the Democrats. That it is all the Dems. fault, then you go on to say both sides could care less. Could you please explain how both sides are to blame, yet it is all the Dems. fault.

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JerryfromRI

Aug-28-13 7:40 PM

"they are spending the money wisely and it's not going where it should be going."

--

That statement does not make sense.

The next Williamsport School Committee meeting should be a doozy.

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Capricorn1

Aug-28-13 7:27 PM

That should be, they are not spending the money wisely.

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Capricorn1

Aug-28-13 7:26 PM

Jerry, they are spending the money wisely and it's not going where it should be going. Do you not agree that the administrative costs are way too high?

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JerryfromRI

Aug-28-13 6:56 PM

"...but the fact is that we have been spending more and more on education since Obama took office and the unemployment rate is essentially unchanged."

--

Raise your hand if you think that here in PA, spending on Education has increased.

The bus ride home for some WAHS kids is now two hours with the changes to the buses. Some WAHS kids are spending their entire lunch waiting in lines in over crowded cafeterias, and then bringing their lunch to the next class to eat.

Yeah, "we're spending too much".

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Premier

Aug-28-13 6:51 PM

So PA ranks 10th in spending per student but 47th in job creation.

So I guess the two are not interconnected.

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Capricorn1

Aug-28-13 6:17 PM

Scott and Rick, you know what they say about people that live in glass houses. Shall we discuss the welfare state that this country has become because of the democrats? Both sides of the aisle on Capitol Hill could care less if people stay poor, uneducated and disenfranchised. It's all about the lobbyist and the money.

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Scott36

Aug-28-13 6:16 PM

What a joke. Democrat trying to create jobs.- Woolrich

Without using the excuse of the other side, Please tell me what positive steps the Republicans, or conservatives(I understand some of you do not want to be one or the other) have taken.

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Capricorn1

Aug-28-13 6:13 PM

Marcus I agree 100%. I will be the first to say that some of our teachers need to do a better job. But my point was, no matter how much money you dump in education, you're not going to get the results you're hoping for. Why is the U.S. falling further and further behind in education in the world, yet we spend much more per student than most countries? 40% of money spent on education goes to administrative costs. What business could survive with that high of overhead for administration costs? I have no problem spending more money on education if we start getting a return on the investment and right now that investment is bringing horrible returns. Perhaps we should talk to countries such as Finland, Germany and Japan and look at their education models for ideas. Or are we just too arrogant?

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Scott36

Aug-28-13 6:11 PM

Just like republicans, they want to keep everyone uneducated so they can win votes.-rick424

I have felt this way for quite some time, Have a large group of uneducated, unemployed people that will scratch each others eyes out for a three dollar an hour job. The Far Right Fantasy Land.

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Scott36

Aug-28-13 6:08 PM

That's right, spending on education does not result in more jobs.---Erik- Typical of those I have spoken to from the right(I am sure some on the left do it too) when called on a stupid statement,(sound bite) add a word.(or delete one) In this case "spending" to change what you are being asked about. Man-up, either admit you said something stupid, or argue your original statement. I thought your side was the side of personal responsibility. Pathetic

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rick424

Aug-28-13 5:38 PM

Just like republicans, they want to keep everyone uneducated so they can win votes.

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MarcusY

Aug-28-13 5:22 PM

Cap - Teach is a verb. I don't mean that with hostility, just clarifying my perspective. Clearly certain academic systems are more successful than others. Unsuccessful systems, such as exist in many inner cities, are not unsuccessful because they have unintelligent or otherwise substandard students. Home is part of the puzzle for sure, but I believe it inaccurate to approach the issue as though the well is filled with wonderful water and some just aren't drinking. Great academic systems are successful despite the issues you've referenced. Personally, I believe it boils down to culture. Two schools can be equal in terms of their physical resources but the one with the healthier culture will always be more successful.

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eriklatranyi

Aug-28-13 4:39 PM

That's right, spending on education does not result in more jobs.

You liberal boobs think you have a catchy sound-bite, but the fact is that we have been spending more and more on education since Obama took office and the unemployment rate is essentially unchanged.

Education spending does not go to teachers, it goes to administrators, and specially-created positions that add nothing to a child's education, but plenty to the unions.

Yes, teachers should be marching in the streets against their own union who spends millions supporting candidates while pensions go unfunded.

The private sector has seen through the union smokescreen and have been leaving organized labor in droves.

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Woolrich

Aug-28-13 3:43 PM

What a joke. Democrat trying to create jobs.......The Democrats policies is why the unemployment is so high..Listening to the Democratic party talk about job creation is like hearing Colonel Sanders tell a flock of chickens how he is so upset by the way they are being treated and wishes them a long life. After all the carnage Obama has created, Democrats can't really be that stupid can they.?????

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Capricorn1

Aug-28-13 2:48 PM

"The ticket out of the inner city, the ticket out of poverty is education." Marcus

Are you stating there is no public education in the inner cities? Or perhaps the drop out rate is so high and that's what keeps people in poverty. Public education is available to all and you get out of it what you put into it. Once again it's about personal choices and taking responsibility. Perhaps you way want to research how the illegitimacy rate in the inner cities effect the education of these children and how it effects the drop out rate. As for higher education, many need to get a high school diploma first and then maybe they will see how easy it is to get government loans and grants. Let's put the responsibility of education back on parents and students where it belongs. Dump all the money you want into it, unless you have the parents and students taking education seriously, you will continue to get the same results.

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Scott36

Aug-28-13 2:36 PM

Education does not result in jobs-eriklatranyi

I hesitate to ask, but Who put this ridiculous idea in your head?? Where did this "talking point" come from may be the better question.

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BornHere

Aug-28-13 2:29 PM

Hey rick..stop blaming everything on the gas industry!!

I think Corbett should be replaced because he did not do his job to bring charges against Sandusky.

Corbett should be held responsible for more children being abused during those 3 years because he did nothing to stop Sandusky, he was more concerned about his career than those children.

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MarcusY

Aug-28-13 11:46 AM

erik clearly lacks, well, education...

Rand Paul on school choice and the importance of education in combating poverty: "And that's going to backfire on them because what they're going to discover is the Democrats want the status quo. They don't care what happens to the kids in the inner city, I truly believe that. The ticket out of the inner city, the ticket out of poverty is education. And people keep saying 'no it's poverty, you need to get rid of poverty before you can educate people.' No, you get rid of poverty by educating people"

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rick424

Aug-28-13 11:37 AM

"The GOP has complete control of state government and yet PA ranks near the bottom in job creation."

It is all those gas industry jobs, Oh wait where are they??

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JerryfromRI

Aug-28-13 11:33 AM

"Education spending is money into the hands of the unions who give it back to Democrat candidates."

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Yeah, you hear this one a lot from certain people. Go have a gander at the cars in the teacher's parking lot at the school, you'll see for yourself how well the teacher's are living it up.

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