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Use common sense

September 2, 2013

Have the President and various members of Congress lost all common sense? I cannot understand that they would ever consider cutting aid to Egypt's military over the coup that toppled the Muslim......

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(42)

gavinf56

Sep-02-13 6:38 AM

"Friendships and enemy lists can be adjusted later if necessary" - William C. Dincher

See: the Taliban and Iraq.

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Garben78

Sep-02-13 7:37 AM

Cut all foreign funding and help our own

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CMReeder

Sep-02-13 7:41 AM

There is a double edge sword at play in this situation. The US supports the use and application of the principles of democracy. The Eygpt have to be able to vote who will represent them and form a new government. Do we support the democratic process or do we bemoan the results and push to undo it?

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CMReeder

Sep-02-13 7:42 AM

Sorry thoughts got ahead of me, that should read The Egyptian people.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Sep-02-13 8:22 AM

"There is a double edge sword at play in this situation. The US supports the use and application of the principles of democracy. The Eygpt have to be able to vote who will represent them and form a new government. Do we support the democratic process or do we bemoan the results and push to undo it?"--CMReeder

+

Good points but the Muslim Brotherhood only see democracy as a tool towards getting out from dictatorial control and on to Sharia Law where the mullah's and Muslim (more specifically Sunni) religious leaders control everything.

With the current makeup of people/religions there are probably only two forms of stable government (dictatorship/military or Sunni Sharia law) that can exist in Egypt and democracy is not one of them.

The US can go hands-off and the Sunni religious leaders will control things or they can re-establish a new dictator friendly to the west.

Our president encouraged the overthrow of Mubarak and now this mess is happening.

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USABorn

Sep-02-13 9:22 AM

According to law, the U.S. CANNOT give aid to a country where a coup has taken place.

-----------------------------------

The following news goes to show how much Obama's "friends" are worth!

"In what is being reported as a surprise move, the 40,000 members of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) announced that they have formally ended their association with the AFL-CIO, one of the nation's largest private sector unions. The Longshoremen citied Obamacare and immigration reform as two important causes of their disaffiliation."

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enigma

Sep-02-13 10:29 AM

Chuck," The US supports the use and application of the principles of democracy."

The problem is that we should be supporting the principles of freedom. Democracy and freedom are not the same thing. Let me say that again for those of you who are a little slow. Democracy and freedom are not the same thing. This country was founded on the principles of individual freedom, not democracy. Freedom is found in the Constitution not the electoral process, and those elected have to be held to account under that Constitution. Our elected officials have forgotten that and we need to remind them in no uncertain terms.

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rmiller

Sep-02-13 12:00 PM

"Our president encouraged the overthrow of Mubarak and now this mess is happening."

Concur, as did he nothing (or everything) resulting in the deaths of American Citizens in Libya!

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rmiller

Sep-02-13 12:02 PM

" Democracy and freedom are not the same thing."

Enigma is correct. A cursory glance at our history will show that Democracy in fact has stripped our freedoms. A professor at Penn College once said to our classroom, "Democracy has sown within it, the seeds of its own demise."

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MrShaman

Sep-02-13 1:59 PM

"The Muslim Brotherhood is an enemy of the U.S.

The Egyptian military is fighting our enemy for us." - William C. Dincher

*

Actually, Egypt is showing MUCH-more maturity, than the U.S., in development of their new Constitution! They're minimalising any-and-ALL religious-influences!!!!!!

*

See:

Egypt Names Mostly Secular Group to Draft Constitution

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eriklatranyi

Sep-02-13 3:02 PM

...and now we may go into Syria to assist the rebel groups.

There are 9 rebel groups in Syria. 7 are affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Since he took office, President Obama has favored Sunni muslims over all others. That includes the Saudi Royal family, the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda.

Unintentionally, or intentionally, our elected leader is helping strengthen a deadly enemy.

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enigma

Sep-02-13 3:03 PM

Sham, How do you figure? These are people whose entire culture is stuck in the seventh century. Who cares if they are secular? They still won't tolerate anything you insist on. They won't allow abortion or gay marriage, or even just being gay.

What Sham really means is that anything is better than the U.S. Maybe Sham should move to one of those wonderful Middle East countries. Who will help him pack?

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JerryfromRI

Sep-02-13 3:26 PM

At first I was surprised by the anti-democratic rhetoric expressed here - but taken into consideration with one party's attempt to obstruct voting rights with new requirements, I should have seen it coming.

Is freedom gained at the expense of another's just?

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Scott36

Sep-02-13 3:48 PM

Is freedom gained at the expense of another's just?-JerryfromRI

I get the distinct feeling, that some that favor certain political principals would see it as ok. In their eyes, I believe that they think its "saving" America. After all, its common sense.

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enigma

Sep-02-13 4:05 PM

Jerry and Scott, I don't see any anti-democracy rhetoric here. I am merely warning of the folly of assuming that having democracy means having freedom. Having 51% of the population say that it is OK to violate my rights does not make it OK. The democracy must be subject to the principles of freedom, not the other way around. The reason we have a democratically elected government is because it is the best way to maintain the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution, but it is not in itself a guarantee. The only guarantee is that the people maintain a willingness to fight for that freedom. Ideally that fight ends at the ballot box, but if a majority of the people are willing to forgo freedom, then freedom will be lost, and can only be renewed by revolution. I don't want revolution, but I do want freedom, so I'm trying to sound the alarm before it becomes necessary.

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Capricorn1

Sep-02-13 4:15 PM

Freedom and democracy is not something we can bestow on any country. We have tried that too many times and failed. It is left to the will of their people to remove the roadblocks that keep them from it. Now we are looking to interfere in Syria. What possible positive outcome will come from this? It will not remove current government. It will not destroy their chemical weapons. So why are we once again involving ourselves in another nation's struggles? What did we achieve in Vietnam or Iraq, just to name two of the many? I understand that war is a cash cow for powerhouse government contract corporations, but when are we going to learn to stop being so arrogant with our democracy and freedoms?

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enigma

Sep-02-13 4:15 PM

cont..

One of the problems in Egypt is that our government made the mistake of equating democracy with freedom. They had a democratically elected government which immediately suspended their constitution and instituted an elected dictatorship. Any freedom the people did have was dispensed with. This has happened many times in History. Remember, Hitler was elected. That's why I remind you that democracy does not equal freedom. Freedom is very difficult or impossible without some sort of democratic process, but the opposite is far from the truth. So, Jerry and Scott, This is not about eliminating democracy, it's about restoring freedom. Any objections to that?

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CMReeder

Sep-02-13 5:37 PM

"Our president encouraged the overthrow of Mubarak and now this mess is happening."

Really only he supported the overthrow of Mubarak.

Don't be saying you support democratic ideals and then turn around don't like what the people in that nation voted for. You want to tell the people of that nation who their leaders should be not who they want.

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CMReeder

Sep-02-13 5:40 PM

Enigma you really are a horse's behind.

Part of that freedom is electing your leaders. People being able to give voice in their government. They do that through the democratic process.

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CMReeder

Sep-02-13 5:45 PM

Guess who else favored the Saudi Royal family, both Bushes, Reagan, Romney just to name a few.

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enigma

Sep-02-13 6:04 PM

Chuck,"Enigma you really are a horse's behind."

How thick is that skull of yours? I'm not saying that we shouldn't have democratically elected representatives. In fact I DID say that is necessary for freedom. What I am saying is that democracy does not equal freedom. How hard is that to understand? How can anyone even argue with that? It's obvious! Stop being stupid on purpose, you do it enough without meaning to.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Sep-02-13 6:06 PM

"Don't be saying you support democratic ideals and then turn around don't like what the people in that nation voted for. You want to tell the people of that nation who their leaders should be not who they want."--CMReeder.

++

Didn't we learn from the democracy that GWB admin (and the Congress that voted to support the invasion) put in place in Iraq. The ****es and Sunnis just continue to kill each other. The Kurds are strong enough in the northern regions of Iraq and have the closest semblance of order since they significantly out number the ****es and Sunnis and want to move into he 21st century.

A democracy doesn't work with all people groups. People groups need to have a basic respect for human life, regardless of their color, cultural background, religious leaning, gender, age, etc. for a democracy to work.

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JerryfromRI

Sep-02-13 6:24 PM

"This country was founded on the principles of individual freedom, not democracy."

&

" I'm not saying that we shouldn't have democratically elected representatives. In fact I DID say that is necessary for freedom. "

--

If having democratically elected representatives are necessary for freedom AND our country was founded on the principals of individual freedom, then what does that say about the principles our country was founded upon?

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enigma

Sep-02-13 7:28 PM

Jerry, Are you trying to prove that you are as dense as Chuck. I've plainly said that this country was founded on the principles of freedom. I've also said that the democratic process was part of that, but don't confuse that with the idea that this country was founded on democratic principles. It may be a little to nuanced for you, but it's an important distinction, which is why I brought it up in the first place. We have been trying to establish democracies in these Middle Eastern countries rather than encouraging freedom. Democracy does not guarantee freedom. That's all I've been saying. Is it really that difficult a concept to grasp?

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JerryfromRI

Sep-02-13 7:38 PM

"We have been trying to establish democracies in these Middle Eastern countries rather than encouraging freedom. "

--

Please, do tell, how can we promote freedom in the Middle East, instead of promoting the adoption of democracy.

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