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Singing a different tune

September 5, 2013

As President Obama prepares to press ahead with an attack on Syria, one can't help being reminded of then-Senator Obama's criticism of then-President Bush 's threat to do the same to Iran....

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(85)

rmiller

Sep-09-13 8:45 AM

Scott,

Your compassion for people put in harm's way is honorable, as I've said. You mention pushing Christianity. That is not the reason these people in the ME are in turmoil. Having said that, Christianity offers hope - the god of Islam offers rewards for torture, killing, beating, mercy killing, etc. Study Islam to know why they do what they do. My God died for me, He doesn't expect me to die for Him. And, Islam is trying to conquer the Western World. We are the final frontier if you will. I have never had the opportunity to witness to a Muslim. If I do, I have one question for them. When they die (and it is appointed unto men, once to die and then the judgment") how do they atone for their sins? Christ is not just the hope for America, we don't have a right to His salvation anymore than any other country. I weary of the assessment (entirely based on personal feeling as opposed to facts) that Jesus Christ is not our only hope.

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Scott36

Sep-08-13 11:11 PM

cont.

It is a comfort to me that we can be saved despite all of this. Have a very safe and happy evening-Scott

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Scott36

Sep-08-13 11:09 PM

rmiller, Thank you for taking the time to respond with another good post. I agree that other parts of the world are "hurting" also. My point about the middle east is about on par with yours(if I understood you correctly). They as I see it, are stuck in about a 7th or 8th century mindset(please don't beat me up if my assertion is a few hundred years off)with the funds to buy 21st. century technology/weapons. To me it is like putting a loaded shotgun in a 4yr. olds hands-unwise & extremely dangerous. But try putting yourself in their shoes, another culture coming here & asserting their beliefs. Right or wrong, it is bound to cause resentment. You cannot "force" Christianity on them, anymore than they can force their religion on you or I. Again, I do not have the answer, other than my wish that people could stop butchering each other. The good lord gave us free will, sometimes I think we wield it like the 4yr. old with the shotgun. It is a comfort to me

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rmiller

Sep-08-13 10:59 PM

I have to finish this post tomorrow...I'm too tired and the post is wandering off where I don't want to go....have a good night..

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rmiller

Sep-08-13 10:52 PM

Scott,

The problem with those who wish to rid themselves of evil within, if you will? Evil is also a subjective terminology in the sense of human perspective. It isn't in God's eyes, but since we are speaking of humans fighting each other, I'll go with it. Here is where we get problematic with "them" taking care of "their enemies. We still have a culture of mindset that at heart is dangerous and hateful. Maybe less, but still dangerous to the remainder of the free world. I liken this scenario to a pit bull on a leash or off. It's still a pit bull. As I said, it is a good thing to take up the moral issue of defending the innocents against such an attack, and I admire your respect for human life. One doesn't need to defend that. :) Let's take the plight of baby girls in China and the limits placed on the women in China to have only two children. One could argue that since China has a population explosion, maybe the forced used of birth control is not such a ba

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Scott36

Sep-08-13 2:38 PM

rmiller, Some good, and thought provoking comments. My opinion has it that the change must come from them. Whether it be in the form of helping the opposition to fight(there have been some epic failures in those endeavors), education as to how their life could improve for them, and future generations, adding/taking away economic benefits, the list goes on. I just felt a moral need to respond to suggestions like erasing them from the face of the earth. I personally have my disagreements with "organized" religions of any faith, it appears to me that too many times it is used to wield power over basically good people. This is not to say that a lot of good does not come of them, some with addictions getting help comes to mind, & there are many other positives. It obviously is not an easy solution, but just using it as an excuse to attack our pres.(for personal/political reasons), or act in the manner we seem to detest ourselves is not helping in any way.-Scott

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Scott36

Sep-08-13 2:20 PM

Good vs. evil? How are we making out?-rmiller

That question to me is very relevant to one's perspective. What I perceive to be good, you may not. What America perceives as good others may not. This is where compromise comes in. One does not have to compromise one's own principles, however leaders of nations, & large influential groups must see the benefit of it in order to come to some sort of consensus or we as "people" will continue to butcher each other.(JMO)-Scott

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Scott36

Sep-08-13 2:12 PM

leaningright, I agree with you that religious zealots should be removed from power. However a certain amount of tact must be employed. If you just "assonate" them most times all you have done is create a martyr, and fueled anger. Reacting to brutality with brutality e.g. Gitmo, only acts as a recruiting tool for the enemy. History has shown this not just in the middle east, but elsewhere. Don't blame our pres., many have sought a solution. my opinion is that the people of that region need to make a stand/change. Again, jmo, but statements like wipe them from the face of the earth only serve to dilute your message.-Scott

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leaningright

Sep-08-13 12:09 PM

Scott36, what i am saying is get rid of the radical muslim leaders in those countries, Not genocide, just the probelm ones. I am sure that many in Iran would love to be done with those leaders. Where is the outrage from the world about the Christians being killed in Syria? If anyone says anything about the Koran or muslims the whole world hears about it and they death threat everybody invloved, they burn, kill, destroy Christians and you hear nothing. Like i said, they wont stop until we stop them so go ahead and bury your head but the time will come when we will have to act. Obamas weakness strenghtens them everyday, he should have attacked the very first time Syria used the chemicals and asked for nobodys permission. I guess what i really want is a real president not somebody who cant seem to act. Iran is the target, not Syria.

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rmiller

Sep-07-13 10:39 PM

What upsets me most is that the very person/enemy who is responsible for the world's dismay, It stands to reason if one believes God is real, then one must also believe s a t a n is real. Good vs. evil? How are we making out?

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rmiller

Sep-07-13 10:37 PM

As do most of us, I venture. And, as you have rightly stated, greater minds than those who post here, are frantically trying to bring about a resolve. Whether it is a strike with limitations, or a nuke, innocent people will be killed. Obviously, a nuke is the last resort and would take many more lives, but we as Americans deserve to protect ourselves, too. I'm guessing that not one person, including DC, really knows what to do/not in this situation. What concerns me is the timing of the tele communicating of this. Syria has done this for years, or so reports say. Couple that with the amount of investigations we are doing in our own country with the powers that be and this timing doesn't look good to me. This has served to be a great distractor. For myself, a distractor is not reason to go to war. Again....I for one will be glad when Christ returns, this world stinks with pain and dismay.

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rmiller

Sep-07-13 10:29 PM

Scott,

Perhaps it is because Islam is front and center in the news, at our work place discussions, online discourse and perhaps even in our bedrooms. It is splitting this country, as if the Zimmerman trial wasn't enough. Please know, this is not about "killing" as much as trying to extinguish the hardest core of occupation. If somehow, we could contain only those extremists, radicals and bring the babies out of it, along with the women who have never stopped seeing beatings or worse....then nuke...well..go at it. When you speak about the remainder of the largest religion/sect of people in the world, getting more hostile? Two thoughts come to mind. One, there are hostile elements left, and or those who have escaped the nightmares of the oppression of Islam, wouldn't care if the ME was nuked. These people have been fighting since before Christ. They will continue to fight, long after the body count of our men/women are made. I just want this over.

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Scott36

Sep-07-13 12:42 PM

rmiller, It is quite obvious that you have a strong faith. But, a statement like .. Demolish, destroy, decapitate,diminish them from the face of the earth..", deserves a response. I feel it makes the writer, or those who agree with him just as much an extremist as those who advocate the same thing from the Muslim perspective. What is the answer(if god wanted it ended, it would be ended), I do not know, it has been struggled with by minds far greater than on these boards(IMO). Wiping people from the face of the earth, however is not a viable solution. BTW, My understanding has it that there are more Muslims in the world than Christians, Thus would we not create more intensified hatred toward us?- I may not completely agree with all of your thoughts(most I do) but I find them to be heart felt,& truthful to your feelings. For this I thank you, Have a safe, & happy day!!-Scott

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gavinf56

Sep-07-13 5:08 AM

"This is something I know. So I brought a group of Constitutional scholars together to write a piece that I'm going to deliver to the whole United States Senate pointing out that the president has no constitutional authority to take this country to war against a country of 70 million people unless we're attacked or unless there is proof that we are about to be attacked. And if he does, I would move to impeach him. The House obviously has to do that, but I would lead an effort to impeach him. The reason for my doing that -- and I don't say it lightly, I don't say it lightly." - Dec. 4 2007, the Sen. Joe Biden to Chris Matthews on Hardball.

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rmiller

Sep-06-13 11:00 PM

I for one, will be thrilled when Christ returns and sets up His kingdom here on earth and there will never, ever be wars/hate/pain/anger/and more sin. The days of sin will have their reign for just a short time yet. I am resting in the fact that whatever happens, God is in control, period. It could be that before tribulation, my son who is a pastor, or my pastor, or others that I've grown to love, will die for their faith as they currently are now in the ME or other areas predominantly Islam controlled.

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rmiller

Sep-06-13 10:56 PM

cont.

And it is wonderful to know that this time in place, America is sharply divided about what to do or not. It is heartening to know that both sides of the aisle are varied in their own perspectives and that one theme seems to dominate - no war. I know who the answer is, I just don't' know what or how. A part of me wants to destroy those countries in the ME that would take our heads off or our freedoms and not necessarily in that order. The mother in me doesn't want our sons and daughters committed to such an area of brutality if captured. I don't want America divided on this and I'm certain no one here does, But, how long will the cloud of pain from 911 leave us paralyzed? I burn at the thought of innocent babies and children dying in a land that cares not that they do. But, when do we say enough is enough is enough? Obama is giving Assad time, perhaps.

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rmiller

Sep-06-13 10:48 PM

Scott,

This is not about genocide or any other type of willful murder. This is about an encroaching enemy called, Islam. This is not about racism, or us against them, rather a survival of all we hold to be true, and that is freedom. We don't stand alone with a desire to have freedom. Nuking a troubled and strategic site where the radical frays of Islam are breeding different camps, as we speak should awaken our minds to the horrors of Islam radicals. I don't doubt for one minute that there are many who have escaped the regimes of the likes of Sadamm Hussein and have tried to make a home where they can sleep at night without the pounding of incoming missiles or breathe in chemical death. Honestly, I don't believe any of us wants war, and I've belabored my thoughts on another LTR. cont.

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gavinf56

Sep-06-13 7:55 PM

“Bashar al-Assad now joins the list of Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein who have used these weapons in time of war,” John Kerry told NBC’s “Face the Nation.”

So if he is like Hitler, why only the limited action?

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gavinf56

Sep-06-13 7:48 PM

“The world has come together and said ‘no’ to this war – and we must stand with them.” — Danny Glover

“Let us resist this war. Let us hate war in all its forms, whether the weapon used is a missile or an airplane.” — Susan Sarandon

Parodied off of Buzz Feed.

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gavinf56

Sep-06-13 7:47 PM

“War is failure! When you are at war, you have failed!” — Janeane Garofalo

“I don’t like war. I particularly don’t like the celebration of war.” — Neil Young

“Let’s talk for a minute about these masters of war, these same men that are sending our sons and our daughters, our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers to fight an undeclared and unconstitutional and unwinnable war for them.” — Jessica Lange

“You know, really good artists have a way of being relevant in their time — but great artists are relevant at any time. So, in the words of William Shakespeare, ‘Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor.” — Barbra Streisand

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gavinf56

Sep-06-13 7:46 PM

“I also think that there is a strong streak of racism, and whenever we engage in foreign adventures. Our whole history in regime change has been of people of different color.” — Ed Asner

“I think we’re past that point in human evolution where there’s such a thing as winning wars.” — Sean Penn

“I think we’re past that point in human evolution where there’s such a thing as winning wars.” — Sean Penn

“You can’t beat your enemy anymore through wars; instead you create an entire generation of people revenge-seeking.” — George Clooney

“American people always have to be tricked into going to war, they always have to be cajoled. I mean, there’s a long history of being lied to, of having things described in a particular way, in order to get them out of their sort of isolationist… prosperity mode and go to war.” — Jackson Brown

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gavinf56

Sep-06-13 7:45 PM

Breaking News: 14 Principled Anti-War Celebrities We Fear May Have Been Kidnapped

“I think war is based in greed and there are huge karmic retributions that will follow. I think war is never the answer to solving any problems. The best way to solve problems is to not have enemies.” — Sheryl Crow

“War. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing.” — Bruce Springsteen

“But I am equally against the death penalty or war — anywhere people are sacrificed for some end justifying a means.” — Martin Sheen

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Scott36

Sep-06-13 6:32 PM

We should, along with Israel Demolish, destroy, decapitate,diminish them from the face of the earth and put the rest of the world on notice that we will no longer tolerate extremism from any country any longer PERIOD!-leaningright

Your saying that extremism from them is bad, but from us its ok??? "from the face of the earth"- Are you suggesting genocide?

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rmiller

Sep-06-13 4:49 PM

LeaningRight,

I couldn't have said it better myself! Excellent post!

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leaningright

Sep-06-13 2:36 PM

will not end until we end it. Phew!

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