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A dependent nature

September 23, 2013

Some folks have what may be defined as a dependent nature....

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(55)

mikekerstetter

Sep-23-13 3:43 AM

Phil, I disagree.

I am a union person and a national health care advocate. I don't see the free market system as "full of greed and avarice".

I think there are some things that are better done collectively, as do you. Our disagreeance has only to do with what is better done collectively. It has nothing to do with greed. You paint with too broad of a brush.

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AmericanCitizen

Sep-23-13 5:35 AM

Agreed, Mike. The actions of Unions can be detrimental in rare cases but by and large they serve an important function. And by "socialized medicine" I assume Phil is referring to "Obamacare." How is requiring citizens to obtain insurance from private insurance agencies for medical care provided by normal non-government hospitals and doctors "socialized?" Because your tax dollars might be used as subsidies for the poorest among us who can't afford it? Ok, but would you rather pay the much higher cost of them having to frequently visit an Emergency Room instead?

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CarlHiller

Sep-23-13 6:00 AM

Phil I have to disagree with "the ones preferring unionism". There is no difference between a workers union and a business union such as the anti-union, pro-amnesty Chambers of Commerce. Business constantly tends to reduce wages and to extend the working day to its physical maximum to increase it's profit margins. Unions for workers constantly press in the opposing direction, better wages, benefits, less hours. Without this symbiotic relationship between the 2 you have what we have today, a return to low wages and benefits, illegals taking jobs at much lower wages, hours that fluctuate so an employee is at the mercy of the employer. It is by no means a coincidence that the levels of class inequality are recreating those of the 'laissez faire" capitalism of the late nineteenth century. Capitalism is just another 'ism'. While I agree with the other aspects of your letter, these can never be fixed without the relationship between workers unions and business unions.

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leaningright

Sep-23-13 6:25 AM

"Without this symbiotic relationship between the 2 you have what we have today, a return to low wages and benefits, illegals taking jobs at much lower wages, hours that fluctuate so an employee is at the mercy of the employer."-Carl Hiller

This is also in part because of the "leadership" we have today! and Obamacare.

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CarlHiller

Sep-23-13 7:21 AM

"This is also in part because of the "leadership" we have today! and Obamacare." That is because of the tremendous alliance between business and government today. Do you really believe Obamacare was concocted by government? Obamacare was written for and by the health insurance industry. It was never about anything other than a gross transference of middle-class wealth to the health insurers. Leaders today are bought and paid for with corporate money, not elected for the people, they are only elected by the people. Recently I got notice on my family's health care premiums, which are going to go up about 47%, with tremendously increased deductibles and prescription costs. What I pay for health insurance will now cost me over $18000 per year, just for the "privilege" of having health insurance, not counting all the other costs involved. Needless to say I will not carry insurance in the future until needed. Not only does government need to get out of the way,

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enigma

Sep-23-13 7:36 AM

Phil, You are right, but you don't go far enough. There is a cause that should be noted. All human beings are born totally dependent. As they mature they become less dependent on others and more dependent on themselves. The level of maturity that a person reaches determines the level of dependence which is maintained. A fully mature person is fully independent of others when it comes to meeting day to day needs. As a society we have delayed and often stunted the maturing process, hence a more and more dependent culture. As people become more dependent, they become less productive and the standard of living for all is lowered. I wish I had time to counter some of the lame comments made earlier here, but I have a busy day today. Have fun everyone.

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Nothing

Sep-23-13 7:39 AM

We live in the United States of America. We have a long tradition of "collectivism".

Your letter and its overbroad approach is simply un-American.

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Capricorn1

Sep-23-13 7:47 AM

I have no problems with unions as long as those unions don't have an influence over our tax dollars. In other words, I don't feel that any civil service position should be represented by a union. I know many will disagree but why should our tax dollars be held hostage and be used as bartering chips. Local municipalities are struggling and taxes continue to rise because many of these unions do not want to sacrifice like everyone else has to. Would anyone here like to see our military unionized and strike for more money and better benefits?

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Capricorn1

Sep-23-13 7:54 AM

Mike, do you actually think that this fiscally irresponsible government could manage a universal healthcare program? Have you researched the disadvantages of such a program and how they would relate to this country in it's current economic situation? Have you ever been subject to such a system or spoken to anyone that has and not what you may have heard from Michael Moore? What may be good for one country doesn't always mean it's right for this one, especially with the massive, uncontrolled, fiscally irresponsible government we currently have.

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eriklatranyi

Sep-23-13 8:26 AM

Yes, humanity is becoming more and more dependent.

When people call 911 because McDonald's has run out of McNuggets, that is a sign of dependency.

When people demand gov't involvement because a handful do not use seat belts, that is a sign of dependency.

Unfortunately, collectivism and socialism cause many problems that then need to be addressed......many times by more collectivism or more socialism.

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leaningright

Sep-23-13 9:08 AM

"Obamacare was written for and by the health insurance industry. It was never about anything other than a gross transference of middle-class wealth to the health insurers. Leaders today are bought and paid for with corporate money, not elected for the people, they are only elected by the people."-Carl Hiller

And now being re-written for the unions! I thought Obama was throwing the Lobbyist out of there?(just more words, see... RED LINE SPEECH) Obamacare is so great, nobody wants it! Everyone wants an exemption, why is that?

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leaningright

Sep-23-13 9:20 AM

Obamacare, his "signature piece of legislation"? I think it is a signature piece of something, but not legislation for sure. What a train wreck.

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underwood

Sep-23-13 9:55 AM

Carl, there’s a big difference between a free market and crony Capitalism.

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JerryfromRI

Sep-23-13 10:58 AM

When a worker negotiates a salary, they can go go it alone against the company, its management, its HR department and its lawyers, or they can bargain collectedly with other workers.

Some folks name you as acting as dependent if you choose the later.

I say, take whatever position puts you in the best position to demand the best compensation for your work.

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underwood

Sep-23-13 11:11 AM

He letter was neither pro or anti union, it simply points out the difference in people’s natures.

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themis

Sep-23-13 11:20 AM

Phil, I understand the differences between the 2. You simply cannot have disdain for one side without the other if you are interested in fixing the problem of dependency. It is the collusion between government and business in shipping jobs out of the country, hiring illegals, forcing wages lower, etc that has caused the increase in dependency in our country today. Railing against one side leaves an incomplete equation.

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JerryfromRI

Sep-23-13 11:28 AM

I challenge your assertion that choosing to put oneself in the best negotiating position possible somehow reflects ones dependent nature.

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Ritty77

Sep-23-13 12:52 PM

Good letter, Phil.

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Fredzz

Sep-23-13 1:19 PM

Carl Hiller:

"" Obamacare was written for and by the health insurance industry. It was never about anything other than a gross transference of middle-class wealth to the health insurers. ""

It is nice to see someone else understands insurers. And it's not just [ health ] insurers

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mikekerstetter

Sep-23-13 1:26 PM

Capricorn1, first, my idea of national health care is that of a single payer plan, not that the Government would run all aspects of health care. And yes, I believe a system such as that can be run. In fact, a similar system is already being run.

And Michael Moore? Really? Except for being a national health care system advocate, I'm probably one of the most fiscal and social conservatives here.

No, I don't pay much attention to Michael Moore, or Hannity or Rush for that matter. I just don't have time for either extreme.

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mikekerstetter

Sep-23-13 1:34 PM

Capricorn1-"I have no problems with unions as long as those unions don't have an influence over our tax dollars. In other words, I don't feel that any civil service position should be represented by a union. I know many will disagree but why should our tax dollars be held hostage and be used as bartering chips. Local municipalities are struggling and taxes continue to rise because many of these unions do not want to sacrifice like everyone else has to. Would anyone here like to see our military unionized and strike for more money and better benefits?"

Do I want the military to unionize for better pay and benefits? Sure, why not? They certainly deserve a lot more than they get for their service. And as far as government employees, it's a proven fact that, job for job, public employees get paid less than their private industry counterparts even with benefits and retirement factored in.

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leaningright

Sep-23-13 1:51 PM

Mike, the military is all volunteer, they volunteer because they want to serve, it is not about pay, it is about country. Unionizing the military, is absurd. Pay for govt workers,- if they don't like the pay the government gives then go to private industry for your job and make the government compete, its called capitalism, its America for goodness sakes.I can't believe what i am reading here.

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Capricorn1

Sep-23-13 2:21 PM

Leaning right, you are correct and just as the military volunteers to serve their country, civil service should be no different. The incorporation of unions into those professions takes away from the original intent. They are there to serve the public just as the military and our tax dollars compensate them for that service.

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leaningright

Sep-23-13 2:29 PM

Thanks cap, all hope is not lost! Glad your here.

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mikekerstetter

Sep-23-13 2:55 PM

So Cap and Leanings philosophy is screw the military and all public servants because they chose to serve the public. They should all be happy to receive nothing to work for you? Pathetic. That's a horrible way to think.

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