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Proof of God

October 14, 2013

Einstein's general theory of relativity, one of the most accurately tested theories in science, proved the universe had a beginning at which time all space, matter, time, and energy came into......

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Ridgerunn3r

Oct-18-13 5:43 AM

Examine the history of the belief in a god, particularly in the Abrahamaic deity...the Judeo/Christian/Islamic Jehovah/Yahweh/Allah...

Referring to events in Europe and the Americas in the 15th to 17th centuries... "All this barbarism and cruelty in the name of Jesus of Nazareth, the Holy Christian church, and a God of Love". [from "Farewell to God", by Charles Templeton]

and... "Ironically, the Inquisition was good for the economy." ...by creating employment for many. Interesting, perhaps that's what was happening under Bush II before people got fed up with the theocratic bent this country was headed toward.

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Steelman

Oct-17-13 9:02 AM

Ah....finally! The "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy

To think all agree with others behavior because they are classified in the same grouping is ludacris. If this were the case you would agree with 100% of any actions taken by the athesis. If not you yourself are in the same category.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 3:10 PM

'Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon which refers to the discomfort felt at a discrepancy between what you already know or believe, and new information or interpretation."

The theist cannot imagine living a life without the promise of a blissful afterlife or the threat of punishment in hell. They can't comprehend the finality of death.

They are stunned to find that millions of people do just exactly that, quite content in the knowledge that they are lucky to have a life at all, and secure in living that life in the best way they can for themselves and their fellow humans because, quite simply, it's the ONLY ONE YOU GET.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 2:51 PM

Oh, I missed something.

It appears that Mr. Miller, by his own admission, is a "fringe" Christian of the kind I describe as being particularly dangerous.

And Steelman is one of the "vast majority of Christians" who reject same.

I should bow out and let YOU TWO go at it while I sit back and watch.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 2:37 PM

'I just read this letter. Kudos for the attempt to educate the masses. Rational thought, science, logic, common sense, "ever learning and never coming to the truth." All motives and processes of an agnostic, atheist, or humanists. "

And the alternative is....say it with me...all together now....FAITH.

You don't disappoint either Mr. Miller.

Faith is belief without evidence. Faith requires the intentional suspension of, yes, those things which you mention, and apparently consider character flaws.

Stunning.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 2:33 PM

'The vast majority of christians denounce this extreme behavior "

Ah....finally! The "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. You don't disappoint.

As I said before, you aren't paying attention, but I have a feeling I'm just wasting my time here.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 2:27 PM

'You still have breath in you, and that means you still have a chance for an eternity spent otherwise, not in h e l l. And, make no mistake, given the path you are on, you will spend eternity there. Because God says so, I can state this with absolute authority: "You are a fool."

Mr. Miller, I do not fear your myths nor your "absolute authority" which frankly is quite humorous. You have no argument therefore you resort to proselytizing and and ad hominem by calling me a fool.

That's fine. Do you think this is the first time I have debated a theist? It's not - trust me. But they all have one thing in common: they end up doing just what you did, but some of the ad hominems are far worse.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 2:21 PM

" This type of behavior promotes theorists to stockpiling ramen noodles, ammunitioin and hiding in their basment waiting for the apocolypse "

For the record, you are describing a "prepper"...I am not one. I don't own, and never will own a firearm.

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rmiller

Oct-16-13 1:12 PM

"The groups listed have all but disipated and rekindle during election years just as all radical parties do. A following of anything is going to have extremist. The vast majority of christians denounce this extreme behavior and the reputation it promotes to nonbelievers by making the faith look like a cult. This type of behavior promotes theorists to stockpiling ramen noodles, ammunitioin and hiding in their basment waiting for the apocalypse"

Steeleman,

I would be considered one of those "fringe" elements of society. But, I can assure you I'm not stock piling ammunition, nor building bunkers in preparation for the apocalypse. I won't be here for it.

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rmiller

Oct-16-13 1:10 PM

TommyB,

You still have breath in you, and that means you still have a chance for an eternity spent otherwise, not in h e l l. And, make no mistake, given the path you are on, you will spend eternity there. Because God says so, I can state this with absolute authority: "You are a fool."

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Steelman

Oct-16-13 1:04 PM

The groups listed have all but disipated and rekindle during election years just as all radical parties do. A following of anything is going to have extremist. The vast majority of christians denounce this extreme behavior and the reputation it promotes to nonbelievers by making the faith look like a cult. This type of behavior promotes theorists to stockpiling ramen noodles, ammunitioin and hiding in their basment waiting for the apocolypse

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rmiller

Oct-16-13 1:04 PM

Mr. Mahaffey,

I just read this letter. Kudos for the attempt to educate the masses. Rational thought, science, logic, common sense, "ever learning and never coming to the truth." All motives and processes of an agnostic, atheist, or humanists.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 10:56 AM

What I stated below about the coins, currency, and the pledge are NOT based on "my beliefS", they based on historical facts.

I challenge you to do some serious research...you owe it to yourself.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 10:46 AM

"Regardless of what is posted you will refute it based on your beliefs."

YOU are the one with beliefs, not me. I do not pray and I worship nothing or no one.

I would refute anything you say because I can.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 10:41 AM

" Ultimately not sure why it is so important for you to deny Gods existence or the harm it is causing people to believe, but more power to you"

I'll tell you why. There is a concerted effort in this country by dominionists, Christos-fascists, and Religious reconstructionists to subvert the establishment clause and slowly take this country in the direction of becoming a theocracy. If you deny this you aren't paying attention.

I WILL NOT stand by and watch this happen. Even you, as a believer, should be alarmed it this. If you are not alarmed and you think it's a good idea, then YOU are my enemy.

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Steelman

Oct-16-13 10:34 AM

I guess this conversation is the definition of Newton’s 3rd law. To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction. Regardless of what is posted you will refute it based on your beliefs. For every article or quote you find I could find 10 pointing in the opposite direction and vice versa. Ultimately not sure why it is so important for you to deny Gods existence or the harm it is causing people to believe, but more power to you

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 10:08 AM

By the way, the next time you watch CSpan, take note of the inscriptions on the back wall of the senate and house chambers.

In the house, it says "In God We Trust" which really is a violation of the establishment clause.

On the back wall of the senate chamber, it says "e pluribus unum" which,as it happens, was intended to be the motto of the US, not IGWT.

Again, cold war hysteria took over our politics in the mid 1950's.

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 10:04 AM

Steelman...

Space does not permit you and I to play a "battle of the founders quotes" game, although I could. Start with Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists (1802). Then check out the writings of James Madison, the father of the constitution.

I WILL say that you have fallen victim to classic right wing religio/political dogma.

The original pledge did NOT contain "under god." That phrase, and also "In God We Trust" was added to the currency in 1955 during the McCarthy era in response to "godless" communism. IGWT went on the coins after the Civil War and many considered it unconstitutional even then. It is.

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Steelman

Oct-16-13 9:54 AM

Pledge allegency to the flag of the united ststes of america and to the republic for which it stands one Nation UNDER GOD. Every piece of currency "In GOD we Trust" "The Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests." - Andrew Jackson "The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband." - Thomas Jefferson "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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TommyB

Oct-16-13 9:43 AM

"Why are our laws based on the ten commandments, and our country based on God?"

Neither statement is true. Where did you get such an idea?

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Steelman

Oct-16-13 7:22 AM

Why are our laws based on the ten commandments, and our country based on God?

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Ridgerunn3r

Oct-16-13 5:43 AM

...more from Charles Templeton... *I believe that you cannot love your neighbor as yourself but that you should care about your neighbor, whoever he is and wherever he lives, help him when you can and co-operate with him to make our wold a better place. *I believe that live yields rewards and punishments but that we cannot expect and will not receive any special favours from any alien source. *I believe that, in common with all living creatures, we die and cease to exist as an entity. *I believe that life is the superlative gift and is to be celebrated. (from: "Farewell to God-My reasons for rejecting the Christian Faith" by Charles Templeton (1996)

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Ridgerunn3r

Oct-16-13 5:36 AM

...more from Charles Templeton... *I believe that, because we have the ability to control our actions and to discriminate between what we understand to be good or bad, we are responsible for the way we live. *I believe that, because we are capable of making rational choices, we have the potential to make the world a better place-or to destroy it. *I believe that the greatest motivating force in life is love. Caring for someone we will be motivated to seek the best for that person and will be ennobled in doing so.

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Ridgerunn3r

Oct-16-13 5:32 AM

...more from Charles Templeton... *I believe that our world was borne in finite time and will, in its time, perish. *I believe it likely that there are millions of populated worlds in the universe, each at different stages of evolution, some dying, some being born. *I believe that the genus Homo is no more than the leading edge of the universal evolutionary process on earth, but that he has more capacity for good and evil than any other creature. *I believe that selfishness is the root of all evil. *I believe that we as individuals are in large part predestined by our genetic inheritance but that we are free within those limits to make what we will of our lives.

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Ridgerunn3r

Oct-16-13 5:28 AM

From Charles Templeton: ...permit me to summarize what I DO believe: *I believe that there is no supreme being with human attributes-but that all life is the result of timeless evolutionary forces, having reached its present transient state over millions of years. *I believe that there is what may be best described as a Life Force, a First Cause, a Primal Energy, a Life Essence, and that that it is the genesis of all that is, from the simplest atom to the entirety of the expanding universe. *I believe that the Life Forse is not a "being". It does not love or no can it be loved: it simply is. *I believe that there is no Father in Heaven who can be persuaded by our prayers, but that meditation in the form of prayer can be an instrument of growth.

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