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Religion and politics

November 1, 2013

One letter published by the paper has been the source of contention politically and religiously. That letter is 'War on Christianity....

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Ridgerunn3r

Nov-10-13 7:59 AM

ToTEXASfromPA: "the chains, raping, whipping, and abhorable treatment of slavery in the US"

Hmmm... and those southern theocrats that supported states rights and the holding of slaves at that at that time had to be squelched by the federal government. My view is that the South of the time would have had an ally in the current TEA party.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-05-13 9:24 PM

things are still mysteries and we will not know until later.

Flat earth implied. You miss the whole intent of the verses; Satan is offering the whole world to Jesus if he will bow down and worship him. If you think the intent is to prove the Bible was written by unlearned people and this implied flat earth is your evidence; well I think that you are stretching things.

FortySixand2, Maybe you need to ask yourself why these atheist writers, that you follow, never study these verses thoroughly with writings from Biblical scholars. I have never gone to a theological school or been seminary trained but with some digging, you can find answers to many but not all questions.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-05-13 9:23 PM

Concerning Exodus, you need to understand the type of slavery in Israel at that time and it was different from the chains, raping, whipping, and abhorable treatment of slavery in the US, 200 years ago. Many times, but not always, it was voluntary or until debts were paid off. God established a law so that the slaves actually had rights, moral right to live. In the surrounding pagan nations, the owners were justified in killing a slave since it was their property. Whereas, for Israel, God provided consequences against the owner.

Concerning the going into heaven, it does sound contradictory but we know very little about heaven and what this means. For instance in 2 Corinthians 12:2, it talks about "a man was caught up into the third heaven". Does that mean there are several heavens or levels of heaven? Was Jesus in the level of heaven with the Father but Enoch and Elijah were in a different level where the Father was not present. I will just have to say that some thin

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-05-13 9:23 PM

FortySixand2,

I don't have answers to everything but I do take seriously trying to understand God's Word and rely upon commentaries and writing of those that understand the original languages, the choosing and not choosing of precise words, the translation to modern English language, the cultures of the people in those times, the cohesiveness and interrelationship between different parts of the Bible, etc, etc. I wish you would take this seriously instead of going to the writings of Dawkins, Hawkings, Sagan, Hitchens, etc. for more cut and paste.

Concerning Ephesians, you need to read to the end of the chapter. The submission is not the husband's to command, demand, and beat out of her but for the wife to willingly and lovingly offer. Whereas the husband has the larger requirement of loving the wife like Christ loved the church. As Christ gave his all (his own life for the church) so should the husband give to the wife.

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FortySixand2

Nov-05-13 11:20 AM

The Bible is full of outrageous verses containing some pretty disgusting suggestions(baking bread containing human dung). There is much nonsense about stoning to death disobedient children and selling daughters into slavery, sleeping with and impregnating your deceased brother's widow. Yikes. Well, maybe not if she's a hottie!

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FortySixand2

Nov-05-13 11:15 AM

The many books of the Bible were written by people of primitive knowledge, and yet many thousands of years hence, we are told that these collection of book are "inerrant". No, I'm not buying what the fundies are selling.

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FortySixand2

Nov-05-13 11:13 AM

2 Kings 2:11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Clearly contradictory, no?

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FortySixand2

Nov-05-13 11:11 AM

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

That clearly implies the Earth is flat.

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FortySixand2

Nov-05-13 11:09 AM

On Biblical inerrancy...Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should "submit in everything" to their husbands. Exodus 21:20-21 When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his "money". Subjugation of women and condoning slavery.

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FortySixand2

Nov-05-13 10:51 AM

Texas, it seems to me you have all the answers. And that makes you one thing for sure....closed minded. And that is never a good thing.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-03-13 10:22 PM

Ridgerun3r,

I had never heard of him so I went to his website. I usually like to check out the "belief statement" to understand what they believe. One of the statements was "We seek to help teach and remind people of their personal and powerful and often forgotten Divinity". When I read this and some of the other things on the website, I would classify him as one of those false prophets that was mentioned in the scriptures that I had listed. What they advocate seems to mirror the teaching of the 1st century Gnostics.

No mention of God in three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). No discussion of sin and redemption for mankind. No mention of the inerrancy of the Bible.

I wish you the best.

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Ridgerunn3r

Nov-03-13 9:38 AM

If I were to return to 'the church' and proclaim myself again a Christian, I think I would seek out a church body that preaches something akin to Bishop Carlton Pearson's Gospel of Inclusion... there's too much infighting otherwise from the various factions of Christianity and other theists.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-02-13 9:04 PM

that you profess your faith and are saved."--Romans 10:9-10

So some in the church are not Christians and get in positions of leadership and make inappropriate decisions. The church needs to ensure they adhere to God's word and test leaders and what they say. When the church deviates from God's Word, they can do some things that are wrong. Focus on Jesus Christ not men.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-02-13 8:57 PM

Con't>>

every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."

Some people are Christians in name only. They think they can be good enough and work so that God will let them into heaven. But God makes it clear that salvation is through faith and believing in Jesus' death and resurrection to pay for their sin.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."--Ephesians 2:8-9 (note that it is 'not by works' and it is a gift of God, just like you would give a gift to someone and not expect anything in return)

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess yo

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-02-13 8:55 PM

Ridgerunn3r, Probably one of the best ways to explain it is with some quotes from the Bible. "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. "--2 Peter 2:1-3

Likewise Paul warns Timothy in 1st & 2nd Timothy

And even in 1 John 4:1-3 "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but

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Ridgerunn3r

Nov-02-13 6:44 PM

>> ToTEXASfromPA::

The church has both Christians and non-Christians in it."

Huh? Wha'? Does not compute. Explain please... I thought one had to be a christian to be part of 'the church'.

The two individuals I mentioned met their deaths at the hands of 'the church'.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-02-13 11:08 AM

Cont>>

correct, no person will ever persuade you. But if you are honest to God and yourself, you will seek Him; ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Ask Him to reveal the true evil of your sin and ask how it can be removed to allow you into heaven. Do you believe that He is righteous, goodness, holy and gives men free choice to receive or reject him?

The church has both Christians and non-Christians in it. Sometimes they follow God's word and sometimes they don't. Seek God, seek Jesus, ask the Holy Spirit to work in you. Ask for the revelation of truth. Lean not on the man-made philosophies.

Question and test everything that I have written to you and go to God.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-02-13 10:59 AM

"The Christianity that I was taught as a child and teen promises eternal life in Heaven. I came to the realization a few years ago that if.......No one has yet been able to sway me."--Rigerunn3r

++

You make it sound like it is a battle of one person's ideas against another's to convince and persuade.

It is the sweet, gentle leading of the Holy Spirit; it is a spiritual surrender to God.

To the names of those that you referenced, do you object because some religious institution has venerated them? The real question is how has God dealt with them; do you really know their fate?

The church is full of all kinds of sinners (thieves, liars, murderers, covetors, disobedient people, cheaters, etc) but God is in the process of sanctifying them; they are a new creation. God has justified them (declared them righteous) because they believe and trust in Jesus' death to pay for their sin. The Christian has unconditionally surrendered to God, on God's terms and conditions. You are

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Ridgerunn3r

Nov-02-13 5:45 AM

The Christianity that I was taught as a child and teen promises eternal life in Heaven. I came to the realization a few years ago that if Tomás de Torquemada or those responsible for the deaths of Giordano Bruno and Michael Servetus are in heaven, that I'd prefer not to go. No one has yet been able to sway me.

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eriklatranyi

Nov-01-13 7:35 PM

FortySixand2:

You are correct. You didn't call them "desperate" you said:

"You're talking about people who are in dire straights...'

Huge difference, you criminal recipient enabler!

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FortySixand2

Nov-01-13 7:29 PM

Wow, how prescient a statement was that from Mr. Goldwater!

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FortySixand2

Nov-01-13 7:26 PM

Barry Goldwater, your party needs you badly....“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible*****problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” ? Barry M. Goldwater

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FortySixand2

Nov-01-13 7:25 PM

Your attempting to grasp straws now. I didn't use the term "desperate".

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eriklatranyi

Nov-01-13 7:14 PM

FortySixand2 said:

"The Republicans would rather demonize and vilify the poor as feckless and lazy and cancel these programs outright."

Ah, the response of a coward....framing the choice as between fraud and waste-ridden programs or nihilism.

It demonstrates you have no argument, nor any proposals for cleaning these programs up to help only the truly needy.

In fact, you even defended the recipient frauds by using the word "desperate".

Well, maybe the store owner was "desperate" to save his business and feed his family.

Why don't you forgive him?

Because you are an anti-business liberal who defends and worships the criminal recipient with no intention of any integrity in these programs.

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FortySixand2

Nov-01-13 7:08 PM

I went to your post and you gave very little information to go on except the store owner gave cash for ebt cards. You didn't say how much or anything else. You're talking about people who are in dire straights, so it doesn't come as a shock they'd hand them over for cash. When and where have I ever said it was ok for recipients to do that? Never! So don't put words in my mouth. I stand by my statements. The Republicans would rather demonize and vilify the poor as feckless and lazy and cancel these programs outright.

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