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Roman model

November 1, 2013

The Roman Empire existed to serve the needs of its namesake city....

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(40)

MrShaman

Nov-01-13 5:57 AM

The 1%ers/high-roller$/"JOB CREATOR$" are doing just FINE!!!

If you've got a problem, with that, be prepared to take-on their front-line "troops"; the T-Baggers!!!!!

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ToTEXASfromPA

Nov-01-13 6:24 AM

Proverbs 11:11 - "Upright citizens are good for a city and make it prosper, but the talk of the wicked tears it apart."

Proverbs 11:25 - "The generous will prosper; those who refresh others will themselves be refreshed."

Proverbs 13:4 - "Lazy people want much but get little, but those who work hard will prosper."

Proverbs 16:20 - "Those who listen to instruction will prosper; those who trust the Lord will be joyful."

Ecclesiastes 8:13 - "The wicked will not prosper, for they do not fear God. Their days will never grow long like the evening shadows."

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sideliner

Nov-01-13 7:02 AM

"Those who work hard will prosper."

That has to be the biggest lie going. I'm sure we each have many examples of those who have worked hard and did not prosper. Concentration camps wete full of them.

Those kinds of "proverbs" are great tools to keep people working hard....

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eriklatranyi

Nov-01-13 7:15 AM

We use resources because we are free to capitalize on those resources to the benefit of all.

Using oil, coal, or lithium allows the companies that extract it to make money, its workers make money and society does not have to struggle to heat our homes in the winter while playing on our mobile phones.

The Romans did not employ capitalism as part of their empire. They exploited the masses for the benefit of the ruling elite, just as our politicians today tax the productive to ensure the ruling elite keep ruling and stay elite.

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leaningright

Nov-01-13 8:09 AM

David Bross, we will not suffer the same end because strong capitalist,conservative, americans will not allow this to happen. Period,! David!

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enigma

Nov-01-13 8:31 AM

I have to agree with David, at least to some extent. We are headed the same way as the Roman Empire but only because we have abandoned our founding principles. Before the progressives started there destruction of what America really stood for, we were, like the early Roman Empire a benefit to the whole world. David and his ilk would like you to believe that we have stolen what we have from the rest of the world, but that is simply not true. We paid for what we took and in the process elevated every society that we touched. We have now, under these Progressives become the imperial power they so despise. We use both our military and the power of our dollar to control others, and the strength of both is being eroded just when we need them most here at home. We are losing our standing in the world and our freedom and prosperity at home. A return to founding principles is the only thing that will save us.

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leaningright

Nov-01-13 8:34 AM

Enigma- Said perfectly.

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nobud74

Nov-01-13 8:34 AM

Mr. Bross, what you fail to consider in your letter is how the industrialized nations have aided the rest of the world. It is because of medical and technological advances by the nations you named that the lesser developed countries also have the ability to sell their riches and enjoy a higher standard of living. To say that it is a one way street is simply wrong. Have there been and will there be abuses, of course, just like in those very countries that are lesser developed there are abuses by countryman against countryman and by their rulers against their citizens. The only difference is that by engaging in commerce with the rest of the world the poorer countries have an opportunity to extricate themselves from their poverty and 3rd century way of life. What they do with that opportunity is their choice, not ours.

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nobud74

Nov-01-13 8:37 AM

As for your assertion that the Roman empire is like the developed countries of the 21st century, the Romans occupied, plundered without payment and enslaved the conquered. This is a vast difference over today.

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MrShaman

Nov-01-13 8:38 AM

We use resources because we are free to capitalize on those resources to the benefit of all." - eriklatranyi

*

Yeah....right...."all"....

*

See:

UE News Feature: Blood and Oil - A Middle East Primer for UE Members

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nobud74

Nov-01-13 8:38 AM

And, once again Shammy has teabagging on his mind. I must say, I have never seen someone so infatuated with a $exual act. It kinda makes you wonder....

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MrShaman

Nov-01-13 8:44 AM

"David Bross, we will not suffer the same end because strong capitalist,conservative, americans will not allow this to happen." - leaningright

*

Yeah...we've SEEN how "capably" strong capitalist,conservative, americans manage things!!!

*

See:

Money, Power and Wall Street | FRONTLINE | PBS

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MrShaman

Nov-01-13 8:51 AM

I have to agree with David, at least to some extent. We are headed the same way as the Roman Empire but only because we have abandoned our founding principles. Before the progressives started there destruction of what America really stood for, we were, like the early Roman Empire a benefit to the whole world." - enigma

*

Yeah...that'd be the "perfect"-word..."benefit"!!!!!

*

See:

U.S.-Sponsored Genocides: From Guatemala to Congo | Global Research

&

U.S. Interventions in Latin America

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DavidBross

Nov-01-13 9:07 AM

Erik-We use resources because we are free to capitalize on those resources to the benefit of all. Enigma-We paid for what we took and in the process elevated every society that we touched. (I doubt the women working in the clothing factory in Bangladesh that collapsed would agree with those statements.)

Nobud74-The only difference is that by engaging in commerce with the rest of the world the poorer countries have an opportunity to extricate themselves from their poverty and 3rd century way of life. What they do with that opportunity is their choice, not ours. (I doubt that those working in dismal working conditions that are essentially dictated by companies like Wal-Mart would consider that they have much opportunity and even less choice.)

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DavidBross

Nov-01-13 9:07 AM

Nobud74-As for your assertion that the Roman empire is like the developed countries of the 21st century, the Romans occupied, plundered without payment and enslaved the conquered. This is a vast difference over today. (As I specifically mentioned in the letter, developed countries have used economic leverage, not military conquest. However, today's economic leverage is powerful enough to achieve what military conquest used to. Less deadly perhaps, but not particularly admirable.)

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spike2

Nov-01-13 9:13 AM

Finally, a really good LTE.

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enigma

Nov-01-13 9:16 AM

"See:U.S.-Sponsored Genocides: From Guatemala to Congo | Global Research & U.S. Interventions in Latin America"-Sham

Apparently you missed that I agreed that the Progressives started the imperialism they now decry even while continuing it. The U.S. kept to itself until Teddy Roosevelt and his 'big stick' decided that the U.S. should push around smaller countries. That is not part of the founding. While some of the founders thought it our responsibility to promote freedom around the world, they were smart enough to know that you can't force people to be free, so they led by example, not military or economic might.

BTW, YouTube is probably not the best place to study history.

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MrShaman

Nov-01-13 9:19 AM

Mr. Bross, what you fail to consider in your letter is how the industrialized nations have aided the rest of the world. It is because of medical and technological advances by the nations you named that the lesser developed countries also have the ability to sell their riches and enjoy a higher standard of living." - nobud74

*

Yeah...whether they wanted-to...or, NOT!!!!

*

See:

Guatemala 1954: Prime example of US imperialism.

&

CIA and Assassinations: The Guatemala 1954 Documents

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MrShaman

Nov-01-13 9:33 AM

"The U.S. kept to itself until Teddy Roosevelt and his 'big stick' decided that the U.S. should push around smaller countries." - enigma

*

Yeah...sure...he and James Monroe had it all-planned-out, right from the start.

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underwood

Nov-01-13 11:02 AM

The ideology that stemmed from the enlightenment freed countries that applied it from kings, emperors, and other dictatorships and replaced them with representative governments based upon the rule of law and economic freedom. Unfortunately, most of them are progressing into governments controlled by pressure groups and cronyism. I’ll have to agree with David to the extent that modern governments are progressing into something similar to the Roman empire.

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CMReeder

Nov-01-13 11:40 AM

I understand how you can see that David but I disagree with you.

What you described with modern nations is not the same as with past Empires. Today you have alliances and international commerce. While some will say there is empire building it isn't true as it was in the past.

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eriklatranyi

Nov-01-13 11:43 AM

DavidBross said:

"I doubt the women working in the clothing factory in Bangladesh that collapsed would agree with those statements."

Do you think those people would be better off if we did not buy anything from them?

Advancements in technology and communication allow you to even know about the working conditions in Bangladesh.

At this nation's founding, do you think everyone was interested in the latest news from Tibet or do you think they were just trying to gather enough firewood to survive the winter?

We shed slavery, and that led most of the world to shed slavery.

Facebook and Twitter helped overthrow dictators..... thanks to our consuming.

You demonstrate a complete disregard for how much we aid the world by our advancements.

There is no utopia.

The world is changing and getting better, but it takes time.

Despite all our riches and power, we cannot change the world overnight.

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enigma

Nov-01-13 12:07 PM

"I doubt the women working in the clothing factory in Bangladesh that collapsed would agree with those statements."-David

You may be right. They probably would have preferred that their families would have starved to death instead. Maybe you would prefer isolationism? What part of giving people a chance for a better life don't you like? One accident in one factory and you're ready to condemn the people of the world to a life of poverty.

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sideliner

Nov-01-13 1:04 PM

Excellent letter, David.

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DavidBross

Nov-01-13 1:08 PM

Enigma and Erik- Working under the existing conditions and starving are not the only two options. For example, if we were willing to pay more for clothes, electronics, etc. perhaps these women and other workers would have better working conditions and lives. The developed countries do have great influence over the working conditions in developing nations. At this point the influence is used more to make it convenient and cheaper for those in developed countries to consume resources.

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