The U. S. is still the super power in the world but can no longer determine what happens in the Mideast....
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I have to admit, this has been one of your more spirited posts.... :)You know how to debate with civility, which is almost a misnomer in the progressive field. :)
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RMiller, thanks for your thoughtful post. Chuck, glad you liked the posts.
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Really good posts David.
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"Obama is a muslim sympathizer, no small surprise there, also wonder why?" RMiller, are you using the word muslim to describe a culture or a religion? - DavidBross
She is doing neither.
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"Chuck, is it really fair to label everyone on the right in that manner?" -Capricorn1
You know Capricorn1 you like so many here have no problem labeling people on the left in a like manner.
No one is suggesting that the people of Israel be destroyed. We are suggesting that their government is less than conducive to peace. You are talking apples and oranges then throwing in a grapefruit. You do the same with "Muslims". All Muslims are not evil. All "Muslims" do not want to kill all the Christians or those who live in a society that does not have religion ruling its people. We are not all Christians and they are not all radicals. You dislike Obama and they disliked their leaders. Do you ascribe to Obama's form of government? No. You are a religious zealot and happy being so. That is fine. you are fully entitled to your beliefs. They too have religious zealots. Both countries have those who believe in many of the religious teachings but reject other portions. All "Christians" are not good or evil and neither are all "Muslims". All the Israeli people are not bad. Neither are all Israelis good. Blonde haired Caucasians were not superio
Your view, David is skewed in this matter, IMO. You add insight to the political spectrum and the insatiable greed by Americans that spills over in the international community. You certainly bring much to the table when it comes to virtually all discussions. But, because you are not saved and you don't know my Lord from an intimate basis, it is difficult, if not impossible for you to comprehend the thoughts I have conveyed in the last posts. I can't add anymore, nor can I ask you to see the spiritual blessing of full endorsement of Israel as a nation. Suffice to say that Israel will continue to remain front and center and unscathed by any weapon or otherwise move against it, until the Lord's return. If you think that to be snake oil, or any muslim thinks that to be snake oil, so be it. But, if you live long enough and the Lord returns (and only the Christians will see Him) you will know the Bible to be truth.
It is only because we live in comparative isolation, I mean the whole US, that we are comfortable seeing things from just our point of view. The rest of the world has been aware of this for years. They also realize that much of the foreign policy that is touted here at home as generous and compassionate for the rest of the world, is seen as simply protecting our interests. And they are right in many cases.
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In short, there is nothing that is happening today that hasn't been done by Western Civilization and on an even larger scale and in the recent past. In many ways, the birds are coming home to roost. And we are paying a very dear price for decades of cheap oil and other economic benefits.
The CIA overthrow of the duly elected president on Iran in the 1950s and replacing him with a US friendly dictator, the Shah. These actions, lasting decades with thousands of innocents killed at our behest and for our benefit are some of the actions I have in mind. To think that what is happening in the ME is only because of a religion is absurd. The fuel for the rage felt in that region has been accumulated over the decades even centuries.
This was the first one I posted related to another letter. "but I've never met a Christian who wants to kill or enslave me for disagreeing with them." Then you haven't lived in Northern Ireland. That violence was completely Christian on Christian. And then WWI was Christian on Christian with both sides sure that God was on their side and supporting their actions which included the use of poison gas. Also, in the early 1900s we have the French ripping fingers and arms off of Algerian women to take their jewels without bothering to remove the jewelry and left the women to bleed out. Again, if you had a larger view of history, you would know that what some Muslims are doing now, is what Christians have already done for hundreds of years. Also, perhaps your view of Muslims is as skewed as a Muslims would be if they thought that "Snake Salvation" was representative of Christianity. I will add the treatment of those in the ME in order to get cheap oil. The CIA overthro
"RMiller, you asked me not to lump all Christians in with the actions of a culturally Christian society"
Can you please define the actions you are referencing?
And, David...Obama is giving enough courtesies to the muslims for all of us. What is it that you would want me to do? I would witness to them, I can't give them any better courtesy than that.
What is the obsession to force people to accept a sect of people who would destroy our way of life? These posts prove my point. It's perfectly alright to show the failures of Israel, but don't dare speak to muslims. Indeed, challenge those who would?
And, I would witness to a muslim because God would want me to. I would feel comfortable, "thus far" in this country doing so, but not as safe in the ME anywhere. I admire the ex muslim who has put everything on the line, including a family back here awaiting his fate. You don't hear Obama writing any love letters or pleas for his life, do you? God only knows what he has endured since his captivity. Make no plea to me on a muslim's behalf outside of my responsibility to try and lead him to Christ, and I would love an opportunity to talk to them about God's love.....real love....from a real God...the only God. Call me fringe/extreme/intolerant/bigoted. But, I don't fear any religion, rather the enemies of the cross. And, I was awake and watched as a plane hit the second Twin Tower. I wonder why....after only a short time, we were admonished to "tolerate" muslims and to be more open to their ideology?
I guess, I would that people choose to keep silent, rather than defend a group of people who would just as soon take your supposed "tolerance" for them and cut your heads off. How many 911's will it take? We are not just talking about 911, there is pure evil before that for centuries and there will be pure evil until Christ returns and destroys what is perhaps the enemy's greatest and most powerful religion on the earth. Does anyone understand their methodology? This is not a religion, this is a life style, complete absorption and domination. How can any American find any defense in this religion? Why is this discussion happening? Political correctness? Jesus Christ died for them too. And, there is a pastor right now, once a muslim, who has been saved and is now living in an Iranian jail simply because he won't denounce Jesus Christ. He who died for him, not some "he" who wants him to die for "him
David, I did make a distinction between those who "convert" to muslim and those who "live it". Regardless of how many times I ask not to be "lumped" along with other sincere Christians into a category, it still happens, doesn't it? Here's the difference David. I am a born again, blood washed Christian. I love my Saviour. Now, you won't get a generic Christian to speak to the "blood" because that doesn't come to the natural spirit, it only comes to and through The Holy Spirit. That being said, my God, wouldn't want me to fly planes into buildings and take lives of innocent people. Why this obsession in this country to defend a culture, race, religion of people that bring every country they invade into submission? Because I am tuned in, there is something wrong with me? I will make no defense for my cautionary mindset (not heart felt set.
Cap and David make some good points here. No complaints from me. Rmiller is a bit misguided bit his heart is in the right place
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RMiller, you asked me not to lump all Christians in with the actions of a culturally Christian society. But, you don't give the same courtesy to Muslims.
It tells me that the knowledge of either faction is limited.
Anti-Semitism is riddled throughout many of these posts. Again, it is not my place to judge Israel, because God has reserved that right. My position remains consistent with the Word of God. Israel is God's Chosen People, (not above or below any other person or race or culture) History has borne my testimony and you can be certain that Israel will remain under God's watchful eye. To speak to condemnation of Israel is to walk on thin ice.
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I don't see any differential between the culture and the religion. Muslims are their religion/culture. This is what the progressives want to do....separate the two. It won't happen, not for a true believing Muslim. Their belief is put in practice in their culture. Does that help clarify my position? The wanna be local converted muslims, I don't fear. If the women who runaround dressed in the head garb want to submit (what the word Islam means) to a man and have her life in constant fear of the man she lives with, that's her choice. She probably is a woman who doesn't have any self respect (and having come from a battered woman's life) I mean that in concern. Muslims, however, true Muslims have no concern or interest in our way of life and you fool yourselves to believe any different. I am amazed at clearly intelligent people who want to elevate the muslim faith, but denounce Christianity in the same breath
Also, there is the point that Israel is acting towards others as they were treated in Nazi Germany. Worse yet, Orthodox Jews are treating less Orthodox Jews the way Nazi Germany treated all Jews. Israel is creating many self-inflicted wounds and patience with that will wear thin. -David
David, I happen to agree with that statement. When a entire nationality is victimized the way they were, it is difficult for them to get past that even when it may no longer be justified. They often lash out at even their own. I think we experience the same thing here in this country with regards to the black community. I believe victimology is relevant in both instances.
The right keeps digging a deeper hole for themselves. They do not think much of Muslims at all. -Reeder
Chuck, is it really fair to label everyone on the right in that manner? Do you have proof or examples how everyone on the right hates Muslims? If you feel someone on these boards feels that way then you should address that person and state your reasons rather than labeling everyone with the same broad brush. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone said all liberals hated the Jews.
Spike, Yes I believe God and the Bible, period. One truth remains consistent. Israel prevails every time and nothing will change that until the tribulation period. God will deal with Israel. According to Biblical prophesy, 2/3 of all J e w s will die during tribulation. But God and God alone will deal with Israel according to His will. As for present day situations, nothing is happening outside of God's will...nothing. I will concur with you Spike that no country is right 100% of the time and Israel is no exception to that rule. However, mine is not to judge Israel, but to support it whatever the nation does. Again, history bears out what God has said all along, "I will bless thee that bless thee and curse thee that curse thee."
Israel has been the beleaguered nation for decades. But, since the 6 Day War, the balance has begun to shift and Israel is still acting as if they are in as precarious a position in the first decades of existence. Also, there is the point that Israel is acting towards others as they were treated in Nazi Germany. Worse yet, Orthodox Jews are treating less Orthodox Jews the way Nazi Germany treated all Jews. Israel is creating many self-inflicted wounds and patience with that will wear thin.
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"Obama is a muslim sympathizer, no small surprise there, also wonder why?" RMiller, are you using the word muslim to describe a culture or a religion?
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