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Pleased with outcome

January 1, 2014

In response to the Dec....

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(81)

Shulski

Jan-04-14 12:34 AM

Tragedy would be half that 1.3 million people becoming homeless with no income. Irony would be those very same homeless people breaking into the houses of Republicans for food, and the homeless shooting them in the face with their own guns.

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CarlHiller

Jan-03-14 8:48 AM

Steelman - I don't say the US Census states this.

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CarlHiller

Jan-03-14 8:47 AM

No steelman, those lines of thinking are exactly what the elites want you to think. There are many case examples nationwide and worldwide that show raising the minimum wage "may" have a short term minor negative effect but it always rises back due to the increase activity in a relatively short time. There a a number of states that have higher minimums than what has been mandated by the FED's and have produced no negative effects and have actually increased employment. Quit looking at that one dot and start looking linearly.

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CarlHiller

Jan-03-14 8:42 AM

Bobbie I agree, the only way "more legitimate money enters the economy is with increased productivity" with legitimate being the operative term. But we do not have legitimate money today. That is why I keep saying you have to work with the rules in place and to quit looking at one dot of the picture. Not to far in the past America had legitimate money, it was increased as production and consumption increased, today it has no intrinsic value it is created on debt and only debt. Therefore in order to pay the debts more must be created out of thin air and placed into circulation in order to continue at a level of prosperity. Since the hyper-creation of money by the FED has not entered the economic stream but has simply gone to the banks and trans-nat'l corps none of the prosperity effects of this money is available for the lower points of the pole. That is why a livable mandated minimum wage is needed. To help in a maldistribution of the national wealth.

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Steelman

Jan-03-14 8:40 AM

Also, When the minimum wage goes up, so does the prevailing wage. Just what we need, now we will get less projects completed do to costs. Atleast the gas taxes will be put to good use

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Steelman

Jan-03-14 8:38 AM

Just a few more points. I know you say the majority are hired by big business, but the small businesses are not passing out the big checks either.How many minimum wage works work 40 hours a week? If they do not work the 40 they are still under the poverty line. Higher labor costs mean fewer people get hired. Employers have to find ways to do more with less and look for other ways to economize. Unskilled workers get laid off, replaced by machines and higher-skill workers who are more valuable. Self-checkout lines appear in grocery stores. Credit card machines take the place of the fellow who used to take the money in the parking lot. You have to bag your own groceries at the store. Raising the minimum wage is a bad deal for employers and believe it or not, also for employees, especially the ones who end up being let go in order to keep a business from going permanently into the red and having to close its doors. Just what we need more lost jobs and small businesses shutting down.

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CarlHiller

Jan-03-14 8:29 AM

Now while Ford was a private entity not a government his case example shows that raising wages higher than what anyone else pays cuts costs. I personally do not agree with a government mandated minimum wage but that is the system in place. In order to change the system you must work with the rules in place. By increasing the minimum wage at the governmental level whether Federal, State or City, you increase the flow of dollars and being that our economy is based on dollars flowing this increases consumer activity. When dollars flow to one respective branch of the economy whether it be Corporate heads or employees or government for that matter, this creates a disruption in the economy which we have today. To many dollars flowing into government and big corporations and not enough to the bottom of the pole. It is the bottom through the middle that sustains an economy, not the top. When the top tiers receive too much in relation to the bottom the pole eventually topples over.

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CarlHiller

Jan-03-14 8:04 AM

With all due respect, if you do not look you cannot see. According to census figures the majority of people employed at minimum wage are not employed by small business, they are employed by major corporations. Henry Ford is the greatest case example for he did what no other at his time did, he doubled the average wage of his employees to $5 hr., he trimmed workhours from 9 to 8, and generally treated his employees well, knowing that a fat calf is more stable than a starving calf. Some of this was selfish, a good selfishness, on his part because he knew he would sell more product if his employees could buy that product, he would gain better employees by paying them well, and employees would be more loyal when treated well. Many small business owners instinctively know what Mr. Ford knew, but big business today does not. When you increase pay levels either through wage increases by employers or mandatory minimum wage increases more dollars enter the economic stream at all economic level

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Steelman

Jan-02-14 3:01 PM

I must be out of the loop if raising minimum wage creates jobs "greater minimum wage and lower unemployment" ....Hiller

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CarlHiller

Jan-02-14 1:50 PM

Ritty at one time not too long ago I agreed with that. But after much study on the issue I have changed my thinking. The minimum wage issue is just one dot in the picture. Germany right now has no minimum wage, there are roughly 480 "regional" minimum wages and a number are negotiated by trade unions. This has caused a rise in their social programs use because Germany guarantees a "minimum standard of living" rather than a minimum wage. That means the government, rather than employer, ensures that people get enough money to survive. While Australia has a much higher minimum wage, lower unemployment and a lesser cost for social services. Who is right and who is wrong? It's a choice we have to make and the choice I agree with is raise the minimum wage.

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CarlHiller

Jan-02-14 1:38 PM

Germany is a good study as to why not to increase the minimum wage, as they do not have one and their income inequality mirrors ours, as does their unemployment rate. Australia is a good case study for increasing and tiering minimum wages as they have a greater minimum wage and lower unemployment. You can look at all the propagandic studies done in the US by both sides of the issue but real world experience with similar economies will give you a better understanding and there are a number of them. You either like slave wages or you like an economy that thrives with higher wages and lower unemployment. It all depends on what you want for Americans of all stripes.

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Ritty77

Jan-02-14 1:20 PM

Without regard to any economic consequences or benefits, it's wrong for the government to tell anybody what to pay someone else. Let the individuals involved come to an agreement, or not.

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CarlHiller

Jan-02-14 12:31 PM

Steelman, That simply is untrue in todays economy. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 1.57 million Americans, only 2.1 percent of the hourly workforce, earned the minimum wage in 2012. So for them to have an adverse affect on "the average working class" which would also include those minimum wage employees, so you are telling me that raising the incomes of 2% of the workforce population will affect the wealth of the other 98% of the workforce negatively. Sorry but that does not add up. Will there be some affects, yes, but the vast majority would be a positive. You are simply looking at one dot in the picture by dots. Sorry but I have looked at both sides of the issue and those who rehash the big business propaganda have not looked at the whole picture. If we had a free-market this would be a moot point, but we don't. We don't even have a capitalist economy anymore. What we have is a corporatist economy and the rules are different.

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Steelman

Jan-02-14 11:41 AM

So an increase in minimum wage has no effects on a worker who has been a dedicated employee with a company for years? I am not buying it. With this economy as bad as it is, how many businesses do you think are giving cost of living increases? Why not have the government enforce this as well. That $1 burger that may raise a dime or $.15 (not just on burgers but everything) is going to increase the burden of the average working class who scrapes by, forcing him to now look for financial aid from the government. So in return the “increased tax revenue” will not create “less welfare and a whole host of others benefits” but bring once self supported workers down with them.

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FortySixand2

Jan-02-14 11:03 AM

What a whole lot of people don't get, is that "free market capitalism" is unsustainable if left to its own devices. It has to have redistributive forces placed upon it. This is usually done through tax policy as well as minimum wage policies. The conservatives cries of the sky falling every time we hike the min. wage never seem to materialize. So, me thinks they are insane. If you can't recognize when you've been demonstrably wrong over and over again, you have a problem.

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CarlHiller

Jan-02-14 9:54 AM

America must treat the symptom first(why have incomes stagnated, why are so many paid minimum wage, raise minimum wage) and then look for the cause and the cure as to why so many Americans are employed at minimum wage or slightly higher. The minimum wage issue would not even be an issue today, but it is, if we operated under a truly free-market system.

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CarlHiller

Jan-02-14 9:45 AM

Steelman - You have fallen for the lie. Prices do not double when there is a doubling of the minimum wage. Wages are generally for a large corp only a small percentage of the total. That $1 burger may rise a dime or $.15 but society as a whole will gain and save much more in increased tax revenue, less welfare and a whole host of others benefits. While I am a free marketer, not a capitalist, we do not have anywhere close to either today. I am not for a minimum wage of any kind but the system today has created the need for a livable minimum wage. In order to cure ills you must work within the system we have allowed to evolve today.

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Steelman

Jan-02-14 7:32 AM

Increasing minimum wage is a stupid idea. All that is going to do is increase the cost of living. How can you not see that it is a vicious circle. So you increase the fast food workers wages to $14 per hour, now for that restaurant to make any profit they have to increase their $0.99 menu to $2 to compensate for the wage increase. Can we not see how this trickles down? The ones who get screwed are the ones that have been working 11yrs for a company and is barley hanging on. They will not get a cost of living raise that is going to compensate the cost of living increase. So these hard working reliable individuals that now have to pay $7 for a gallon of milk are now making less than the new guy that just got hired at McD’s

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CarlHiller

Jan-02-14 7:24 AM

Shammy - Both Republicans and Democrats need to remove their proverbial blinders. Neither side is willing to do what is best for the host - THE PEOPLE. If they were we would not have a tax law as it is today, we would not have multi-billion dollar corps receiving millions in tax refunds or credits, we would not have a welfare system that is so out of whack that we cannot continue to help those in need.

Premier - While it is true that costs would rise, the difference between the rising costs and the societal benefits of reduced welfare, more consumer spending. Low wages are simply a cost-shifting measure for big business. Someone has to pay for the housing, health care and other living costs of those who work full time but cannot fully support themselves. Our system today shifts many of these costs to the government which taxpayers then have to pay. Low wages are a control mechanism by not government but big business.

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MrShaman

Jan-02-14 6:42 AM

"Ya know, this may come out wrong but here goes anyways.

Lets say these burger flippers get their $15 per hour they seek so they celebrate by taking the family to dinner where they work." - Premier

*

Why would they want to DO that...rather-than taking their family to some little Mom-&-Pop restaurant, somewhere-else??

You "conservatives" really-do need to remove your blinders...and, consider concepts, OUTSIDE what Porky Limbaugh allows you!!

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MrShaman

Jan-02-14 6:33 AM

"Minimum wage increases hurt entry level and unskilled workers most. Employers won’t pay more than employees are worth from the standpoint of productivity. Minimum wage increases may be good politics, but they’re lousy economics." - underwood

*

No doubt!!

All those Mom-&-Pop shops (merely) need to do a better marketing-job of reeling-in the 1%ers/high-roller$...rather-than relying "too-heavily" on minimum-wage customers...right?????

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MrShaman

Jan-02-14 6:24 AM

"While the President brags about the "recovery" his EPA is continually dictating new rules and regulations on business. This is why there are no jobs. Putting unnecessary burdens and costs on employers decreases the amount of available jobs and closes own businesses." - JohnZook

*

Gee...that's quite the list of "new rules and regulations on business" you listed!!

Yeah...I'M convinced!!!

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MrShaman

Jan-02-14 6:17 AM

"Your side gives him no credit for anything unless it is really bad." - CMReeder

..and your side gave G. W. credit for?" - gavinf56

*

...Giving the 1%ers/high-roller$ tax-cuts...right-BEFORE "pulling-the-pin" on TWO WARS!!!!!

They REALLY needed tax-cuts...right-BEFORE their defense-industry investments REALLY STARTED GENERATING INCOME???

*

See:

60 Minutes: George W. Bush Sought to -Find A Way- to Invade Iraq - YouTube

&

EXPOSED: Bush Planned on Invading Iraq Before 9/11-Part 2 - YouTube

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MrShaman

Jan-02-14 6:08 AM

"If the minimum wage is increased, do you think the employer is going to pay it out of thier profits or pass it on to the consumers of all goods and services?" - Tgrammiex4

*

You mean...from the employers INCREA$ED-profit$...because of ALL minimum-wagers' pay-increase??!!!

Do you "conservatives" EVER (fully) THINK-THINGS-THRU????????

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Premier

Jan-02-14 6:08 AM

Carl, after I wrote that the same thought came to mind but then I thought of all the vendors that supply the goods. Everything would increase dramatically in price would it not? From a straw to the special sauce.

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