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The real facts

February 17, 2014

The public needs to know the real facts behind the political battles raging in Harrisburg....

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(133)

jeanjae

Feb-19-14 10:18 AM

Facts are facts. "Real facts" is a redundancy.

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Spigotz

Feb-19-14 6:26 AM

Lucy, you presume way too much. I've seen the test because I volunteer in the school. I have no love of unions. I do, however, defend teachers, and any public servant, animal lover, simple-minded Sun-Gazette poster, and the American way! Let's all join hands and sing, "onward Christian soldier" -- geez.

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CarlHiller

Feb-19-14 6:06 AM

Mike - "Believe it or not, there are some whose members lean Conservative and their unions back conservative values." Who are they? I gave you mine, now give me yours! I could not find one, public sector union that gives anything substantial to Republican causes. The ones I listed are the major ones in the top 20 in political donorship. In the top 100 I cannot see one union private or public that gives anything substantial to Republicans, the unions lean very heavily democrat. While I do agree that union members are Republican, they are having their funds taken for purely political partisan contributions. You will have to show where I said that "all Public Employee Unions vote democratic" cause I find nowhere where I stated this. What was stated was that public unions contribute heavily to democrats and the left causes. Like many on the left you choose to twist facts and ignore truth.

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Luey22

Feb-18-14 7:07 PM

@Radio, If you have seen the test that makes you part of the problem. You as an educator can say "Uncle" anytime you find it unbearable. No, you would rather blame the students and parents! Grow some "B@lls" and say enough is enough! Unless you like your "benefits" more than sticking-up for your students!Put your money where your mouth is and say NO to your union. Spend the money on the kids and not politics...

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LaughIn

Feb-18-14 6:34 PM

For the record Mike, I worked classified staff before professional. Not only are the unions different, but so are their methods of negotiation. One settles for less to get benefits, where as the other, wants everything and will hold the taxpayers hostage to get it. I am very happy I am retired because I would be the biggest advocate against my dues going to support common day idiot Democrat beliefs. The PSEA and NEA are hippocrates and should be cleaved from local teachers unions, period

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LaughIn

Feb-18-14 3:36 PM

Will you give it a rest Mike. Your school board members are elected politicians and they certainly do negotiate a contract. This conflict of interest occured just this year at the polls in the Jersey Shore School Area School District. I read a Letter to the Editor and election advertisement posted in this very paper by school board members stating the President, Vice-President, and a few teacher union members contributed to new board members campaigns. This might be the smallest form of government, but if it is lawful on this level, WHAT IS OCCURING HIGHER UP IN GOVERNMENT? THE SAME

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mikekerstetter

Feb-18-14 2:36 PM

And, again, Carl, not all public employee unions back Democrats. Believe it or not, there are some whose members lean Conservative and their unions back conservative values. The blanket statement about all Public Employee Unions voting democratic is false.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-18-14 2:33 PM

underwood-The politicians then determine pay and benefits for union members. And some call this a conflict of inetrest?"

Phil, not quite how it works. Neither the Governor, nor any senator or representative sits at the negotiation table at contract time. Nor are they just handing out raises and benefits at contract time. Neither are local school boards or local officials just giving their employees all they want. I know that's the perception, but it doesn't happen that way.

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CMReeder

Feb-18-14 1:56 PM

Sorry that should be Instead not If stead.

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CMReeder

Feb-18-14 1:56 PM

You know workers can vote an establish union out. If stead of taking that route right wing owners and lawmakers bypass that step and just financially starve them out. So the few that don't want to work in a union shop can have there way over workers who want union support.

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CMReeder

Feb-18-14 1:53 PM

The 'right to work' law is a gross misnomer of what the bill is. A way to disenfranchise workers and their unions. It is not a right to work but a right not to have unions for workers. It is to cut off funds for unions.

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CMReeder

Feb-18-14 1:49 PM

Unions give more to Democrats. There is a reason for that. The Republican party has not given any support whatsoever to unions. The Republican made the decision not to get support form unions. The reason is basic math. They can get more support financially from business owners than from workers. The Republican lawmakers are very anti union as was demonstrated in the recent VW union vote.

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CarlHiller

Feb-18-14 12:55 PM

mikekerstetter - "It would behoove you to do some research." before you make "Nonsense blanket statements". Public sector unions are heavy Democratic funders. National Education Assn donated 61% of funds to Dems, 4% to GOP American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees donated 81% of funds to Dems, 1% to GOP SEIU donated 84% of funds to Dems, 2% to GOP American Federation of Teachers donated 89% of funds to Dems, 0% to GOP. There is not one union in the top 100 donors who donates more than 5% to Republican candidates.

Looks like a conflict of interest to me.

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underwood

Feb-18-14 10:11 AM

A public sector union contributes funds and other support to politicians that support their objectives. The politicians then determine pay and benefits for union members. And some call this a conflict of inetrest?

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johnnyad3

Feb-18-14 9:41 AM

Hmm. Someone disagrees with a hard work ethic.

No, I got it, they think I'm smarter than my wife, but now I have to disagree.

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johnnyad3

Feb-18-14 8:50 AM

"How many on this forum would have voted for the union if it meant a drastic reduction in pay and benefits?"

Born - I took a pay cut when I joined my union (probably should add private sector union before people get all bothered) 30 years ago. In the short run, it was a little tough. In the long run, it worked out beautifully.

I was able to pay off my mortgage and pay for my sons' college, no loans (again tough but you do what you have to do), who earned a Masters degree. Oh by the way enigma, he went through the public school system and is brilliant. And Rick, I think he got it from my wife too:)

There weren't any vacations but I figure they'll come when I retire with my pension and other retirement benefits in my package.

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Spigotz

Feb-18-14 7:26 AM

Mike kerns tether, I hear ya, agree with you, and have no solution. Here is the problem, tons of money has to be earmarked foe special ed., modified curriculums, in place - then, schools are required to group heterogeneously to accommodate requirement that no single class have more than 50% special ed, so high flyers are mixed in. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Testing now dominates teaching, kids go on vacation during school, class sizes are upwards of 30 kids, and each kid now requires an individual education plan, few rules are enforced so kids dictate the day. So, asking a teacher to fix this is like giving a teacher a lemon, no water or sugar and asked to make a gallon of lemonade. Oh yeah, that one lemon is delivered, already bruised. Fix the problem by getting government outta the classroom.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-18-14 4:02 AM

USA, we were having a discussion on VW the other day. This is the first I had heard of the $3/hr pay cut.

It just makes the whole thing even stranger. And it wasn't a landslide vote, less than 100 votes separated the yes and no's. You have a company backing the Union organizing, wanting to set up a 'works council' whereby the workers have a vote on how/what is produced in the plant (which, it was said, can only be done by law if a union exists??), and the Union who, they said, would have the clause in it (the $3/hr pay cut) to keep profits up for the company. In an article I read, Tennesee law provides that you don't have to pay union dues even if you vote in a union.

I find the whole situation strange, and to tell the truth, I'd have voted no myself.

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mikekerstetter

Feb-18-14 3:39 AM

eriklatranyi-"Public sector unions have no purpose other than to launder taxpayer money to the DNC."

Nonsense blanket statements like that add no credibility to your argument, Erik. I thought you were better than that. It would behoove you to do some research. Yeah, some Unions only back Democrats. But there are those who don't care if you are a Democrat or Republican, they care whether or not you are responsive to Union issues. Traditionally, Democrats are more union/worker friendly and Republicans are more Business friendly. But just as corporations and Manufacturer Associations look for and back those who support their ideals, so do unions. There are a lot of groups out there pushing agenda's and backing candidates. Instead of disingenuously pointing out Unions and saying they should back candidates of their choice, be fair and denounce all groups who back candidates.

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USABorn

Feb-18-14 3:10 AM

The VW plant in Tennessee just voted DOWN unionization. They have 1550 employees. The company was very welcoming to the idea of the union coming in.

The workers found out the UAW contract called for PARITY among the auto makers, which meant those in TN would have to take a pay reduction of over $3.00 PER HOUR TO EQUAL THE PAY OF THOSE IN DETROIT!!!! Their benefits would also suffer.

How many on this forum would have voted for the union if it meant a drastic reduction in pay and benefits?

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USABorn

Feb-18-14 2:45 AM

pincer - 3:35 PM "We need unions even though you simple minded people don't think so. You obviously either don't work or don't need to."

In 2013, 7.2 million employees in the PUBLIC sector (government workers) belonged to a union, compared with 7.3 million workers in the PRIVATE sector.

Workers in education, training, and library occupations and in protective service occupations had the highest unionization rate, at 35.3 percent (Teachers, firemen, police, etc.).

b***OTgov

That's 14 million in a population of 317.5 million?

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GoBB62

Feb-17-14 10:37 PM

"We need unions even though you simple minded people don't think so. You obviously either don't work or don't need to."

Now there's someone in dire need of a reality check.

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rick424

Feb-17-14 7:29 PM

Thank you enigma! I am very proud of all three of them. The smart came from their mother not me :-)

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eriklatranyi

Feb-17-14 7:20 PM

Public sector unions have no purpose other than to launder taxpayer money to the DNC.

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underwood

Feb-17-14 6:32 PM

Unions can serve a useful purpose for people that don’t have the self-confidence to take on those evil corporations all by themselves. That isn’t the case with public sector unions Mike; they’re in a different category.

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