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Not a hater

July 19, 2014

I'm sure you've received many responses to the July 1 quote from Frank Schaefer: "The church is changing and that is good news for everybody", and I'm equally sure that several were vitrioli....

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(21)

Ritty77

Jul-21-14 4:06 PM

Well...we're waiting?

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mikekerstetter

Jul-20-14 12:47 PM

Chuck, you're good with accusations. What, exactly, did I do that was verbally or physically abusing someone? What did I do to restrict their freedom or rights? Don't spew the typical liberal talking point crap, put out specifics. What have I done that is hateful?

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CMReeder

Jul-20-14 10:41 AM

Mike you go beyond stating that homosexuality is a sin. You believe that because you state homosexuality is sin it is okay to discriminate, verbally and physically abuse, ostracize, penalize with laws and restrict. Your bad behavior is covered because you are doing so against sin therefore in your eyes and the God's you can not be a hater.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-19-14 2:22 PM

The problem with your argument, Chuck, is that simply stating that something is a sin, like homosexuality, is 'treating someone badly'. Condoning or ignoring sin is not what the Bible teaches.

Matthew 18:15 If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

Galatians 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

1 Timothy 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

That is just a sampling.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-19-14 2:10 PM

Luke 17:3-4 So watch yourselves! “If another believer sins, rebuke that person; then if there is repentance, forgive. Even if that person wrongs you seven times a day and each time turns again and asks forgiveness, you must forgive.”

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 8:1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-19-14 2:09 PM

CMReeder-"They are not calling them haters for calling a sin a sin. They call them haters for how badly they treat sinners."

Romans 3:23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

1 John 1:7-9 But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

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CMReeder

Jul-19-14 1:12 PM

They are not calling them haters for calling a sin a sin. They call them haters for how badly they treat sinners.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-19-14 12:06 PM

'Christian Lite' is telling people they are haters because they call sin a sin. 'Christian Lite' is calling people judgmental because they call sin a sin. 'Christian Lite' is EXACTLY what the writer is talking about. It waters down the message to bring people in to Church without giving them the Gospel so vital to their salvation.

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CMReeder

Jul-19-14 10:39 AM

Clearly you never heard "love the sinner, hate the sin".- Erik

Actually I have, you have no love for the sinner that is the problem.

What this boils down to is a real Christian as oppose to the Christian Lite version. So many thinking they are real Christians and don't mind telling others they are not.

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Nobody

Jul-19-14 10:29 AM

Ok Erik, Mike, and Tex. I understand what you guys are saying, but I still don't understand this LTE. I simply don't get what you're saying from it.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jul-19-14 9:26 AM

Cont

followers of Christ are told not to be drawn into these immoral ways.

When Christians quote scripture to point out the immorality (the wrong according to God's Word), they are also reminding themselves of how this is an affront to God the creator because they struggle with and participate in them themselves. The Christian is trying to show love by pointing to a relationship with God that truly satisfies the soul (the deep down essence of the human being) and away from the pleasures of the flesh and mind.

I am a sinner and am so thankful that Jesus Christ paid the penalty of my sin and offers eternal life and relationship with God the creator. I want others to know of this love also.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jul-19-14 9:25 AM

Cont

These several chapters in Revelation refer to Rome and Babylon that were great centers of power in different centuries but both were well know by the people at the time John wrote the book. These cities represented power, prestige, wealth, military might, strength, bountiful foods, self indulgence, physical pleasure, religious diversity (ie. they offered any god that people wanted to follow, including declaring they were a god themselves), etc. A person could do just about anything they wanted to because it was available and no one would tell them that they were doing wrong, short of not following the king or some form of morality (like theft or murder of a peer). The people chased after all these pleasures but could never satisfy the soul.

It was easy for the followers of Christ (ie the ekklesia) to get drawn into the pleasures that satisfy the flesh but leave the soul dry and parched looking for true meaning in life. The author of the LTE points to verses where the fol

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jul-19-14 9:24 AM

I really enjoyed this LTE.

Nobody (who truly is somebody loved and cherished by God),

The Revelation verses are written in a poetic type genre, so they must be interpreted that way; so they have a broader room for interpretation. They are different from say a historical accounting or "just give me the facts" type account. They were meant to illicit imagery through analogies and word pictures.

A translation from the New Living Translation is "Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, “Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her. For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds."

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eriklatranyi

Jul-19-14 8:52 AM

Mr. Reeder:

Clearly you never heard "love the sinner, hate the sin".

Or, you choose to disregard it for your disdain for people of faith and your love of government.

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CMReeder

Jul-19-14 7:58 AM

Christian line of talk, 'I'm not a hater but......' Mike Huckabee is a good example.

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eriklatranyi

Jul-19-14 6:28 AM

A church that truly has faith would not change its values to attract more members to its congregation.

Faith is not about how many people sit in the pews.

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mikekerstetter

Jul-19-14 6:04 AM

Not much of a mystery to me what Steve is saying.

He's calling out those who call themselves Christian or congregations that claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, but don't follow His Word and teaching.

And it's not just those 'churches' or congregations who condone Gay Marriage or homosexuality, it's also those who would protest at military funerals or who shun those whom they believe are 'worse' sinners. There is no worse sin, it's all the same.

He's also telling us we are all sinners, and that we ought to recognize our sins and turn from them.

Basically, he's saying that the Gospel and the Word of God is being perverted to please people and to fill the pews. The message is watered down so much that the people filling the pews don't get the message of salvation and will not get to heaven because of it.

And he's right, the 'Church' is changing, and not for the good of the people.

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Nobody

Jul-19-14 1:04 AM

Or, am I just missing the point of your LTE entirely?

What is your point again, please?

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Nobody

Jul-19-14 1:02 AM

Not "get out". but "come out".

Same idea. Pull the heck out and run for your ever lasting life. So, how is that homosexual?

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Nobody

Jul-19-14 1:00 AM

"Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her inequities"

HUH??? That sure sounds hetero stuff to me! And I would take "get out" to mean pulling ones self out of the "bad girl"?

NO?

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Nobody

Jul-19-14 12:43 AM

I've now read your LTE twice Steve, and I have absolutely NO IDEA what point you're trying to make.

At least Texas tries to tie Scripture into his point. Maybe it's just me, but from your all over the place LTE, I have zero idea what you're trying to say.

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