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A prayer

January 13, 2013

Columbus arrived in the Western Hemisphere in 1492. I did not say "discover" because there were millions of people already living here. None could have heard of Jesus. I wonder what Rev....

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-15-13 6:03 AM

Cont>>>>

The corollary makes it easier to understand the concept.

Of course, later one of the Israelite kings destroyed the bronze serpent because then some started to worship it. Go figure!!!

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-15-13 6:02 AM

I could have given more background on lifting up the snake but was in a hurry to leave the house last night since I had to be somewhere.

"Then the Lord told him, “Make a replica of a poisonous snake and attach it to a pole. All who are bitten will live if they simply look at it!” So Moses made a snake out of bronze and attached it to a pole. Then anyone who was bitten by a snake could look at the bronze snake and be healed!" -- Numbers 21: 8-9

When the Israelites were in the desert after they left Egypt, some were bitten by snakes and died. The people asked Moses to help. He prayed to God and was told to make an image of a bronze snake and put it on a pole. If a person was bitten by a snake, they simply had to look at it and their lives were saved. No medicines were prepare or a great sacrifice.

Similarly, God will give someone eternal life with Himself in paradise if people will simply trust in Jesus for their salvation and the taking away of their sins. The cor

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-14-13 7:58 PM

cont>>>

to believe or not believe.

I am sure that there could be a lot more dialogue that would be better over a long cup of coffee someday.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-14-13 7:57 PM

DavidBross,

Thank you for the thought that you have given to your answer. If I can summarize, there is a difference between the recorded information (who, what, when, where, and how) versus the motivations (why). Of course this this an oversimplification and there are many specific exceptions. Sometimes the recorded information will tell us why, politics, or what someone was thinking but many times it does not.

Concerning the comment "......you are assuming that the reader of your questions thinks that these questions represent choices we are going to have to make.", may I offer these verses "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."---John 3:14-16. According to the historical document (recorded information), one does have a choice

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DavidBross

Jan-14-13 3:43 PM

Here is the rest: how are you going to present yourself "white as snow" so that God will accept you into heaven? One bad deed and no admittance.") to have merit, you are assuming that the reader of your questions thinks that these questions represent choices we are going to have to make.

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DavidBross

Jan-14-13 3:42 PM

Alright, Texas, here goes. If this doesn’t make sense, I apologize. I have thought about this a lot and am not sure the following is what I really want to say. Comments will be welcome. That Columbus made four voyages to the "New World" is well agreed upon. What is less well agreed upon are his motivations and intentions during these voyages. The history books in schools have interpreted his motivations and intentions based on what country the history books were written for.

That Cortez and his merry band of marauders raped, pillaged and massacred the inhabitants of Mexico is also well agreed upon. How he should be viewed certainly depends on your country of origin.

Similarly, that Jesus lived is also well agreed upon. After that, there is much divergence of opinion as to what his life meant. That is true even within Christianity.

So, that is why I feel that for your questions ("How are you going to settle the debt due to your sin;

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BornHere

Jan-14-13 8:27 AM

Mr. Zook I attained my information from the books "The Dark Side of Christian History" by Helen Ellerbe and "The American Holocaust" by David Stannard.

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DavidBross

Jan-14-13 7:11 AM

Texas: I will get back to you later today. No time now to give your post the thought it deserves.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-14-13 6:24 AM

"The letter presents events from the past, but the quote above does require one to accept certain assumptions to have merit." --DavidBross

+++

The events of Columbus, Cortez, and Pizarro (approx 500 yrs old) were passed down in historical documents and you readily accept them as truth with no questions asked. Were you there to witness them? Are they accurate? Where are the original field notes from the witnesses? Where are the corroborating accounts from the non-Spaniards and non-Portuguese? Were they translated accurately from the native language to the current English? How do we really know they are currently portrayed as they really were?

Similarly, the concepts (approx 2000 yrs old) that I discussed are contained in historical documents but you don't accept them. What are those certain assumptions that have to be accepted?

Do you apply the same consistency to both historical events and documents?

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JohnZook

Jan-13-13 9:19 PM

Sixty million Native American deaths?!

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Ridgerunnr

Jan-13-13 7:30 PM

Akin to Columbus' arrival in the Americas is Vasco da Gama's voyage around Africa and to the middle east and further. An interesting recent book concerning de Gama's voyages is "Holy War" by Nigel Cliff.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 7:05 PM

Enigma, you cannot put the skin back on the cat because you wield a tongue and not a needle. I have no problem quoting your words sir "The letter writer does bring up some interesting questions which most any Christian could answer, so it's obvious that he's never tried to get an answer. If you want the answers, just walk into any church and ask." Reading comprehension? Writing issues or assumption problems on your end seem the root cause. Who are you to pass judgement on the writer of this letter? It is Christians such as yourself that the learners flee from. Grow up, how old are you anyways? This 'I know you are, but what am I attitude' leaves something to ones imagination and no church can fix that!

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DavidBross

Jan-13-13 6:26 PM

"But Mr. Daniel G. Ehrgood, the bigger issue is where is your heart; have you put your faith and trust in God and His Son, Jesus Christ? How are you going to settle the debt due to your sin; how are you going to present yourself "white as snow" so that God will accept you into heaven? One bad deed and no admittance." Actually, I think the letter presents the bigger issue. The letter presents events from the past, but the quote above does require one to accept certain assumptions to have merit.

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Don521

Jan-13-13 6:13 PM

Historically, the religious powers of Portugal divided the New World into two sections, one half for Spain and one half for Portugal, fighting then began for centuries. Ah, organized religion, such a wonderful way to control people using fear as a motivator.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 5:41 PM

Laughin, I have no idea what your first sentence means. I can't get rid of a post, not even my own, but I'll answer the rest. I am sure that you can't put the skin back on a cat in any meaningful way. I did not say you had to enter a church to believe in God although if your believe in any way the will help you, you will want to (my opinion). What I said was that the writer could get the answer to his questions there. You seem to have a real problem with reading comprehension. You should get some help with that.

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LaughIn

Jan-13-13 5:30 PM

So enigma got rid of my post, interesting. Well, are you sure that skin cannot be put back on? You DO NOT need to enter any church to believe in God or find your way. I will omit the horse stuff.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 1:59 PM

There's more than one way to skin a cat, but there are no ways to put the skin back on. There is one way to Heaven and that's all you need. If you don't want to go that way, you won't get there. The letter writer does bring up some interesting questions which most any Chrstian could answer, so it's obvious that he's never tried to get an answer. If you want the answers, just walk into any church and ask.

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enigma

Jan-13-13 1:54 PM

Chuck,"I do not think you can control people."

Keep supporting the politicians that you do and they'll show you just how wrong you are.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 9:06 AM

Cont>>>

But Mr. Daniel G. Ehrgood, the bigger issue is where is your heart; have you put your faith and trust in God and His Son, Jesus Christ? How are you going to settle the debt due to your sin; how are you going to present yourself "white as snow" so that God will accept you into heaven? One bad deed and no admittance.

I have concluded that many people throw out the smoke screens and straw man arguments about "what about all the other world religions, pagan worship, devoutness, sincerity, etc." to justify themselves as being good enough to get into heaven based on their own merit. Are you good enough? Will you ever know? Are you just playing mental, philosophical games and trying to get enough people to agree with you?

Yes God does love you and wants to spend eternity with you but if you don't want him in your life, he will honor your choice. Are you really going to get right with God? When are you going to start? Right now or mañana.

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ToTEXASfromPA

Jan-13-13 9:04 AM

Columbus was looking for a shorter route to the orient to facilitate trading and making money in the import/export business. Cortez and Pizarro were trying to find riches that they could plunder to bring back to the treasuries of the governments and put wealth into the pockets of the financiers. Later the Roman Catholic Church saw it as a way to follow the great commission and spread the gospel (or at least convert people to Catholicism). Many of the priests gave their lives. Later other Protestant denominations moved to escape persecution. These trips and conquests were primarily about money and wealth and not designed as a Sunday School picnic to invite new friends and neighbors.

Cont>>>

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CMReeder

Jan-13-13 8:55 AM

Control is the wrong word to use. I am not a believer of organized religion. Religion does not control people it influences and how much they influence depends on the individual. I do not think you can control people. You can influence, restrain, convince, lead, conjole, motivate.

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BornHere

Jan-13-13 8:49 AM

Unfortunately nobud slavery is still being practiced in the US today.

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nobud74

Jan-13-13 8:28 AM

Yes, Rick, interesting indeed. Don, the Vatican amassed all that wealth long before they started charging to view it.

Yes, organized religion is very effective at controlling the masses. But, it is also very effective in helping many people keep their lives together and be good people. Like everything there are good and bad points and to paint everyone associated with a religion or the different religions with a broad brush that they are misguided is unfair. I think it is clear that we have learned more as we have gone through the years and now can look back and see the errors. This doesn't make those currently practicing bad. Just like we abolished slavery, we look back and know it was the right thing, and shouldn't blame whites of today for those missteps.

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BornHere

Jan-13-13 6:59 AM

Yes rick it is interesting when you consider that Christianity was responsible for over 60 million deaths of Native American's because they would not convert to their ways.

I wonder if those Christian souls are in "Heaven" now? Native American's were victims of the Christian Faith.

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Don521

Jan-13-13 6:44 AM

Organized religion controls the masses, gives them hope, and makes a lot of money. A trip to the Vatican shows you that. It costs about 15 dollars to get in to see it though.

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