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Tea Party and IRS

May 15, 2013

The issue of nonprofit status of the Tea Party being questioned by the IRS is all over the media – but wait a minute....

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(161)

CHayes

May-17-13 11:58 PM

"Erik - not a diversion. I agree the IRS is a mess."

Yes Spike, and it is a mess in this case as a DIRECT result of the chaos caused by the Citizens United decision.

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CHayes

May-17-13 11:56 PM

I mean considering the FACT that only about 25%-30% of the 300 groups scrutinized were conservative in nature, I'm not really feeling the whole Naziesque oppression you're screaming about.

Now if 90% of the scrutinized groups were conservative, you might have a case, but the real number was only 30% tops. Or if you could get me the AVERAGE times for approval for the liberal groups from this 300, and the average time for conservative groups, you might get my attention, but you can't.

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CHayes

May-17-13 11:52 PM

"Most conservatives agree that the number of groups granted tax exempt status should be trimmed.

But that is not the issue.

It is a nifty diversion from the real issue."

Oh yes, the "real issue". You mean that 300 groups were "singled out" for "extra scrutiny", which involved answering a few more questions, and about 75 of the 300 were conservative, which makes the whole thing the moral equivalent of a Nazi concentration camp, as you alluded earlier?

Have you considered erik, exactly the means these applying groups are databased? Perhaps the people at the IRS, didn't really have a practical way to sift through these thousands upon thousands of applications, so they put some typical bagger style words in to get some conservative groups, and then they put some search words in that would allude to liberal groups, and what precisely would be wrong with that?

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spike2

May-17-13 5:13 PM

Erik - not a diversion. I agree the IRS is a mess.

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eriklatranyi

May-17-13 5:06 PM

Breaking News:

The IRS commissioner "has known for at least a year that this was going on," said NBC News Correspondent Lisa Myers, "and that this had happened. And did he share any of that information with the White House? But even more importantly, Congress is going to ask him, why did you mislead us for an entire year? Members of Congress were saying conservatives are being targeted. What's going on here? The IRS denied it. Then when -- after these officials are briefed by the IG that this is going on, they don't disclose it. In fact, the commissioner sent a letter to Congress in September on this subject and did not reveal this. Imagine if we -- if you can -- what would have happened if this fact came out in September 2012, in the middle of a presidential election? The terrain would have looked very different."

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eriklatranyi

May-17-13 5:03 PM

CHayes - Spike2:

Most conservatives agree that the number of groups granted tax exempt status should be trimmed.

But that is not the issue.

It is a nifty diversion from the real issue.

Nice try.

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CHayes

May-17-13 2:42 PM

Exactly Spike. I absolutely can't see how anyone that claims (or feigns) concern about the budget deficit, can say with a straight face that they support peoples businesses, particularly multi million dollar businesses like Crossroads GPS, being granted tax exempt status just because they are engaged in political activity.

I don't personally have a problem with it if it is an all volunteer group, because then its not a business.

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spike2

May-17-13 7:29 AM

Erik - was just my personal opinion. Any group that is not a true non-profit should pay taxes. This would also generate additional revenue.

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CHayes

May-17-13 6:34 AM

"Like Hitler used the Jews as the cause of all ills in post WW1 Germany, todays liberals use Christians and white men as the punching bag for all that is wrong with the US."

OMG! And the drama queen award of the day goes to....

Those poor oppressed white men. What will they do?

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CHayes

May-17-13 6:32 AM

"To prove how liberals disregard law, just look at illegal immigration.

Liberals want to grant citizenship to 11=20 million law-breakers."

Ronald Reagan was a "liberal"?

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CHayes

May-17-13 6:31 AM

"Yes, the reporters that were wiretapped by the Justice Department."

Actually there is a big difference between a wiretap, and pulling phone records as happened in the case you're talking about.

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CHayes

May-17-13 6:29 AM

"The IRS violated that law."

And when George Bush and Dick Cheney violated the US War Crimes Act, that had just been passed by the Republican controlled Congress less than a decade before, a law that calls for the DEATH PENALTY for US officials that order torture that results in death, they got not just a total pass from the Republican Party USA, but a rewrite of the law to protect them.

Seems like a whole new attitude. Wonder why the change of heart?

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eriklatranyi

May-17-13 5:32 AM

spike2:

I do not disagree that we need to examine the congressional thinking behind the various types of tax exempt statuses.

However, that is not the focus of this discussion......it is a diversion.

The focus is that the law says these groups can be created and that their donor lists should not be made public.

The IRS violated that law.

People must go to jail.

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spike2

May-16-13 9:45 PM

No political group should receive tax-exempt status. Neither. Tax-exempt status should apply to Non Profits who provide for social needs. Changing politics is fine but should not be tax exempt. Doesn't it seem that in a NON profit, no employee should make more money than the average median income of a single individual?

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eriklatranyi

May-16-13 8:07 PM

Another great example is a story from AP. Yes, the reporters that were wiretapped by the Justice Department. (but listening in on phone calls from terrorists to their allies in the US was a Bush crime).

Nevertheless, the AP reported that the Obama administration has never missed an opportunity to fine an oil company if an endangered bird (eagle) is killed by equipment at one of their sites.

However, despite a large death toll, not one wind farm owner has been fined for similar deaths.

Welcome to living in a Banana Republic, folks!

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eriklatranyi

May-16-13 8:03 PM

To prove how liberals disregard law, just look at illegal immigration.

Liberals want to grant citizenship to 11=20 million law-breakers.

What laws are you allowed to break?

Do the rest of us get one Mulligan in return?

Of course not.

We must obey every law or face the full weight of gov't.

But illegal aliens get a free pass for breaking the law.

Now, if those illegals were not inclined to vote 60% Democrat, do you think liberals would be in favor of amnesty?

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eriklatranyi

May-16-13 7:53 PM

CHayes demonstrates why liberalism always results in tyranny.

Because he thinks donor lists should be legal, to*****with the law. Make those donor lists public.

Too bad it is directed against a particular ideology.

CHayes shows that the law means nothing to them when the have power. Whatever they do is justifiable and good, even if a minority is trampled in the process.

This is what the future holds for blacks in this nation. Once liberals have enough Hispanics supporting them, the pandering to blacks will stop and they will find out the hard way what it is like to be undesired by the party in charge.

White men and Christians already know this.

Like Hitler used the Jews as the cause of all ills in post WW1 Germany, todays liberals use Christians and white men as the punching bag for all that is wrong with the US.

If liberals discriminate against the "undesired" groups, that is just fine as long as political control is maintained by the elite few.

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CarlHiller

May-16-13 6:25 PM

"have you considered that maybe it's a symptom of what's wrong with your party that people are so ashamed to donate to your causes they will go to almost any extent to conceal the donors identity?" No what I have considered is that either Obama acted negligently and/or criminally or one of his closest advisors has and that this administration is finally coming apart at the seams, just like an old pair of worn-out jeans. This IRS scandal is exactly why these lists should not be disclosed, I don't care which party it is. This just opens the door to harass people who donate to a political organization.

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CHayes

May-16-13 4:56 PM

"If the "leak" was so critical and so dangerous to national security that it jeopardized the lives of 309 million citizens"

There are currently about 315 million citizens in the US, and the accusation isn't that they were all put at risk. The accusation is that it compromised sensitive intelligence sources. At least get the story straight.

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CHayes

May-16-13 4:55 PM

"Some groups were even asked for their list of donors, which violates IRS policy in most cases"

Donors to political groups should ALWAYS be open to public scrutiny. Hey erik, have you considered that maybe it's a symptom of what's wrong with your party that people are so ashamed to donate to your causes they will go to almost any extent to conceal the donors identity?

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eriklatranyi

May-16-13 3:54 PM

With regard to the wiretapping of reporters, let me ask this:

If the "leak" was so critical and so dangerous to national security that it jeopardized the lives of 309 million citizens, why doesn't President Obama or AG Eric Holder know anything about the investigation into who conducted the leak?

I mean, if it rose to such a high level of importance that wiretaps on reports was required, don't you think the POTUS and AG would be in on that decision-making process?

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eriklatranyi

May-16-13 3:49 PM

CHayes:

From the Inspector General Report:

For the 296 total political campaign intervention applications TIGTA reviewed as of December 17, 2012, 108 had been approved, 28 were withdrawn by the applicant, none had been denied, and 160 were open from 206 calendar days (some for more three years and crossing two election cycles).

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eriklatranyi

May-16-13 3:44 PM

Lerner said that about 300 groups were singled out for additional review, with about one-quarter scrutinized because they had "tea party" or "patriot" somewhere in their applications.

Lerner said 150 of the cases have been closed and no group had its tax-exempt status revoked, though some withdrew their applications.

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eriklatranyi

May-16-13 3:43 PM

But according to a draft of a watchdog's report obtained Saturday by The Associated Press that seemingly contradicts public statements by the IRS commissioner, senior IRS officials knew agents were targeting tea party groups as early as 2011.

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eriklatranyi

May-16-13 3:40 PM

CHayes asked:

"Have you come by the average times it took for any of the 70 or so conservative groups to get their status approved, vs the other 230 groups that ALSO received this "extra scrutiny"? I'm VERY interested in that fact. And considering you directly made the allegation that conservative applications were deliberately held up, you must have that data."

Here you go:

Lois Lerner, head of the IRS division that oversees tax-exempt groups, stated that organizations were singled out because they included the words “tea party” or “patriot” in their applications for tax-exempt status. Some groups were even asked for their list of donors, which violates IRS policy in most cases, she said.

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